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I can buy that, but then I can't understand why they refused to leave. There is an unwritten contract between any cafe and the public: purchasing any item - ev

I can buy that, but then I can't understand why they refused to leave. There is an unwritten contract between any cafe and the public: purchasing any item - even the tiniest coffee - and you also get the option of staying at the cafe for a period of time. Refusing to leave, or to purchase something, violates that contract.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> I can't understand why they refused to leave Because they were being asked to leave on a discriminatory basis. > Refusing to leave, or to purchase something, violates that contract Attempting to enforce a contract with racial bias is illegal and, ultimately, unenforceable.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
abhi3 9y ago
> but then I can't understand why they refused to leave. Why did Rosa Park not give up her seat? Or Why did Gandhi choose to be thrown out of the train rather move out of first class? Because they knew that they were being treated unequally.
- nortiero 9y ago
  Rosa Parks paid her fare before seating.
  - mygo 9y ago
    Speaking of unwritten rules, there were actual written rules that black people had to give up their seats when asked by a white person, couldn’t drink from the same water fountains, etc. actual. written. rules. So even though she paid her fare, the rules at the time were that she had to give up her seat when asked. So not the best counter-point, unless you agree that, whether or not money has been paid, and written or not, bullshit is bullshit. And getting kicked out of a cafe when there are other peaceful loiterers who were not also kicked out, is bullshit.
    - nortiero 9y ago
      It is not a counterpoint, just a way to show the limits of an overblown analogy. You should appreciate the moral difference between Parks' and Gandhi's deliberate approach and the entitled arrogance of those two gentlemen, whose actions would be of no relevance if not for their skin color. Strange times. But but! If I'm wrong and the guys were acting a protest against overpriced dairy product shady dealers -- then they will have all the support that my limited means offer and unlimited appreciation. edit: gratitude, not appreciation, silly me.
      - mygo 9y ago
        She didn’t get on the bus that day going “I am going to deliberately bring attention to this country’s domestic problem today”. She just did not feel like getting up and surrendering her seat. what happened afterwards is what made it a historic act. Before the year-long bus boycotts began, she was just some black lady who got arrested for disobeying the law.
janesvilleseo 9y ago
They refused to leave because they were tired of being pushed around and discriminated against.
astura 9y ago
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were going to order when the guy they were waiting for arrived. People settle down and wait until the entire party shows up all the time, it's not unusual. It certainly makes sense that people who are going to meet for coffee want to drink the coffee together.
dbt00 9y ago
Unwritten contracts are often enforced with disparate impact, which is why you should be explicit in your expectations. Regardless, Starbucks has explicitly stated they do not have this policy, so your opinion of unwritten coffee house expectation is wrong and immaterial.
mcphage 9y ago
> I can't understand why they refused to leave. Do you understand why they called the police in the two black men loitering, but not on any of the white people in the store who were also loitering?
- simonsarris 9y ago
  Obviously you don't know how many people were asked to leave that day/month/year and their skin color. You're inventing your own contrapositive that you want to believe is true. I'm sure lots of people have been asked to leave at lots of starbucks of all stripes. And then they did, so it didn't get to the trespassing/police part.
  - mcphage 9y ago
    You think the police get called on lots of people sitting at Starbucks? Have you ever been to a Starbucks? Have you seen the police get called a lot?
    - DrScump 9y ago
      I see it a few times a month, generally in response to belligerent homeless people being overtly confrontational and/or aggressively panhandling. At most one of the cases I've witnessed involved any African-American. We also have a few 911 responses (paramedics, Public Safety), generally involving homeless as well. This is in suburban Sunnyvale.
    - simonsarris 9y ago
      No, but I think people do get asked to leave a lot, and then they do leave, so no police call is necessary. Do you understand that is what most people do when asked to leave? These people were asked to leave and stayed 20 minutes after that, until the police showed up, who also repeatedly asked them to leave, before finally removing them. https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8cysu4/starbucks_will_close_8000_us_stores_may_29_for/dxixmyn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8cysu4/starbucks_will...

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> I can't understand why they refused to leave Because they were being asked to leave on a discriminatory basis. > Refusing to leave, or to purchase something, violates that contract Attempting to enforce a contract with racial bias is illegal and, ultimately, unenforceable.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

abhi3 9y ago

> but then I can't understand why they refused to leave. Why did Rosa Park not give up her seat? Or Why did Gandhi choose to be thrown out of the train rather move out of first class? Because they knew that they were being treated unequally.

nortiero 9y ago
Rosa Parks paid her fare before seating.
- mygo 9y ago
  Speaking of unwritten rules, there were actual written rules that black people had to give up their seats when asked by a white person, couldn’t drink from the same water fountains, etc. actual. written. rules. So even though she paid her fare, the rules at the time were that she had to give up her seat when asked. So not the best counter-point, unless you agree that, whether or not money has been paid, and written or not, bullshit is bullshit. And getting kicked out of a cafe when there are other peaceful loiterers who were not also kicked out, is bullshit.
  - nortiero 9y ago
    It is not a counterpoint, just a way to show the limits of an overblown analogy. You should appreciate the moral difference between Parks' and Gandhi's deliberate approach and the entitled arrogance of those two gentlemen, whose actions would be of no relevance if not for their skin color. Strange times. But but! If I'm wrong and the guys were acting a protest against overpriced dairy product shady dealers -- then they will have all the support that my limited means offer and unlimited appreciation. edit: gratitude, not appreciation, silly me.
    - mygo 9y ago
      She didn’t get on the bus that day going “I am going to deliberately bring attention to this country’s domestic problem today”. She just did not feel like getting up and surrendering her seat. what happened afterwards is what made it a historic act. Before the year-long bus boycotts began, she was just some black lady who got arrested for disobeying the law.

janesvilleseo 9y ago

They refused to leave because they were tired of being pushed around and discriminated against.

astura 9y ago

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were going to order when the guy they were waiting for arrived. People settle down and wait until the entire party shows up all the time, it's not unusual. It certainly makes sense that people who are going to meet for coffee want to drink the coffee together.

dbt00 9y ago

Unwritten contracts are often enforced with disparate impact, which is why you should be explicit in your expectations. Regardless, Starbucks has explicitly stated they do not have this policy, so your opinion of unwritten coffee house expectation is wrong and immaterial.

mcphage 9y ago

> I can't understand why they refused to leave. Do you understand why they called the police in the two black men loitering, but not on any of the white people in the store who were also loitering?

simonsarris 9y ago
Obviously you don't know how many people were asked to leave that day/month/year and their skin color. You're inventing your own contrapositive that you want to believe is true. I'm sure lots of people have been asked to leave at lots of starbucks of all stripes. And then they did, so it didn't get to the trespassing/police part.
- mcphage 9y ago
  You think the police get called on lots of people sitting at Starbucks? Have you ever been to a Starbucks? Have you seen the police get called a lot?
  - DrScump 9y ago
    I see it a few times a month, generally in response to belligerent homeless people being overtly confrontational and/or aggressively panhandling. At most one of the cases I've witnessed involved any African-American. We also have a few 911 responses (paramedics, Public Safety), generally involving homeless as well. This is in suburban Sunnyvale.
  - simonsarris 9y ago
    No, but I think people do get asked to leave a lot, and then they do leave, so no police call is necessary. Do you understand that is what most people do when asked to leave? These people were asked to leave and stayed 20 minutes after that, until the police showed up, who also repeatedly asked them to leave, before finally removing them. https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8cysu4/starbucks_will_close_8000_us_stores_may_29_for/dxixmyn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/8cysu4/starbucks_will...