8 ms·

Leather production comes at a very high cost to the environment. So I welcome any real alternative (assuming it is significantly less dirty). https://undark.or

by baxtr 9y ago

Leather production comes at a very high cost to the environment. So I welcome any real alternative (assuming it is significantly less dirty). https://undark.org/article/leather-tanning-bangladesh-india/ https://undark.org/article/leather-tanning-bangladesh-india/

mieses 9y ago
the alternatives will probably be more dirty when you factor in energy, waste, non-biodegradable plastics, etc.
- hexane360 9y ago
  "dirty" isn't really well-orderable. It depends on what you're worried about. Chromium toxicity is definitely a huge problem with current leather production, as well as atmospheric effects and water use from raising cattle.
- notaspider 9y ago
  lol citation needed
jiveturkey 9y ago
Reported feb 2017, with shutdown of the district ("no exceptions") slated for mar 31, 2017. So what happened, did it shut down and move to the new park that has waste treatment, etc?
pvaldes 9y ago
Still needs to be tanned and dyed. With the same products. As a lot of the problem with the leather is that tanning products and inks are poisonous, IMHO probably is not a solution for this problem. Mycelium is more porous than leather (probably), so it could absorb more product. But I could be wrong. Just speculating. Better than plastic for sure if enough strong and can be certified non-allergenig or a cause of asthma.
- mygo 9y ago
  A lot of the problem with the leather is that you have to kill cows, lambs, etc. for fashion. But on the plus side a leather jacket can last a lifetime. And they cost mid-hundreds to low-thousands for a decent one so people aren’t buying as many of them as they would a $15 plastic / polyester throwaway jacket from wal mart.
  - sjwright 9y ago
    Presumably we're killing the cows and lambs for fashion AND food? Even if we stopped using animal leather materials tomorrow, I doubt it would put much of a dent in the industry. (For the record I'm all for eating meat, but I agree that beef is unsustainably bad for the environment compared to other animal options like poultry and eggs.)
    - atmoz 9y ago
      Putting personal preference (taste, price, etc.) aside, I'm curious what other reasoning is behind your position of being "all for eating meat" (if any)? I'm assuming here that by mentioning it in the same sentence as you say beef is bad for the environment, you are talking about being for meat production on a global scale, and not just for your personal preference.
      - setman85 9y ago
        yes I too would like to know the reason for being "all for eating meat". I think most reasonable people wouldn't eat meat (provided reasonable food alternatives) if they got to know the animals and how much they suffer. (just like most Americans would refuse to eat dogs or cats)
    - batiudrami 9y ago
      But leather subsidises the cost of raising animals for meat so reduced demand for it should raise the price of beef. Ideally that would encourage people to eat less beef, and eat more sustainable meats (or no meat at all).
gehwartzen 9y ago
Won't that leather still get used elsewhere? I don't think many animals are reared with the primarry intent of producing leather but rather becouse of our high meat demand and we can't make one without the other.
- CamperBob2 9y ago
  It will be interesting to see what happens over the next decade or two, once synthmeat is good enough to take over the market. Various breeds of cattle will likely go extinct, and the same social opprobrium that will wipe out the market for "real" meat will presumably affect leather goods as well.
  - Xunxi 9y ago
    That is quite amusing. Nonetheless, Muslims and Jews will NEVER eat "frankenmeat" thats more than 1.8 billion people to begin with. I also very much doubt synthetic meat will take over the market unless unless there's some natural cause that cuts off every human access to meat. Westerners are moving away from the steroid bred in favor of organic breeds. Locals in developing nations mostly source meat locally even though the affluent ones still buy the shopping mall meat. Synthetic meat will be relegated to junk food status unless they hide the source and process from consumers, that's even if it makes it out of the lab into wide-scale manufacturing.
  - malydok 9y ago
    When synthetic meat becomes good enough there'll still be loads of people who'll say it's inferior to the real thing. Apart from that I believe a happy cow is better than no cow so sustainable and environmentally-friendly livestock farms still have a reason to exist.
    - virgilp 9y ago
      Well, already you have "loads of people" claiming that kobe beef is better than regular beef (or that the black iberian pig is better than other kinds of pig). Yet, since meet from those animals is expensive, in practice the vast majority of meat doesn't come from these species. It can be identical with synthetic vs natural meat. Price can make the difference, and we can still reduce massively the amount of livestock we breed (e.g. make the farms more environmentally-friendly through regulation)
vanderZwan 9y ago
A couple of years ago I came across Tjeerd Veenhoven's palm leather[0][1]. It is probably not quite as super-durable as pure leather, but still quite incredible given how simple it is to produce (basically, soak a palm leaf husk in a water/glycerine solution for a few days), and given that it is mainly made from what used to be waste materials. Sadly it seems the products based on it did take off enough for it to become a thing (especially since he seemed to be doing his best to also ensure the local economy of the places where this material would be produced would benefit from it). The project got turned into a foundation that tries to support a local economy and design community, so who knows, it might make a comeback in a few years[2]. More recently Veenhoven has been developing pigments from discarded tulip flower heads[3], and fabrics based on algae[4]. [0] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/palm-leather/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/palm-leather/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo7Zfw8eLso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo7Zfw8eLso [2] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/wishful-doing-foundation/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/wishful-doing-... [3] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/tulip-pigments/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/tulip-pigments... [4] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/algaefabrics/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/algaefabrics/
optimuspaul 9y ago
I came across fish leather at a market recently. It is very durable and interesting in appearance. I don't know that it is cheaper or less dirty, but it could be. http://thefishleather.co http://thefishleather.co
- pvaldes 9y ago
  Is dirty in its own way, but more sustainable for sure. http://www.instructables.com/id/Urine-Tanned-Salmon-Leather/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Urine-Tanned-Salmon-Leather/

by baxtr 9y ago

mieses 9y ago

the alternatives will probably be more dirty when you factor in energy, waste, non-biodegradable plastics, etc.

hexane360 9y ago
"dirty" isn't really well-orderable. It depends on what you're worried about. Chromium toxicity is definitely a huge problem with current leather production, as well as atmospheric effects and water use from raising cattle.
notaspider 9y ago
lol citation needed

jiveturkey 9y ago

Reported feb 2017, with shutdown of the district ("no exceptions") slated for mar 31, 2017. So what happened, did it shut down and move to the new park that has waste treatment, etc?

pvaldes 9y ago

Still needs to be tanned and dyed. With the same products. As a lot of the problem with the leather is that tanning products and inks are poisonous, IMHO probably is not a solution for this problem. Mycelium is more porous than leather (probably), so it could absorb more product. But I could be wrong. Just speculating. Better than plastic for sure if enough strong and can be certified non-allergenig or a cause of asthma.

mygo 9y ago
A lot of the problem with the leather is that you have to kill cows, lambs, etc. for fashion. But on the plus side a leather jacket can last a lifetime. And they cost mid-hundreds to low-thousands for a decent one so people aren’t buying as many of them as they would a $15 plastic / polyester throwaway jacket from wal mart.
- sjwright 9y ago
  Presumably we're killing the cows and lambs for fashion AND food? Even if we stopped using animal leather materials tomorrow, I doubt it would put much of a dent in the industry. (For the record I'm all for eating meat, but I agree that beef is unsustainably bad for the environment compared to other animal options like poultry and eggs.)
  - atmoz 9y ago
    Putting personal preference (taste, price, etc.) aside, I'm curious what other reasoning is behind your position of being "all for eating meat" (if any)? I'm assuming here that by mentioning it in the same sentence as you say beef is bad for the environment, you are talking about being for meat production on a global scale, and not just for your personal preference.
    - setman85 9y ago
      yes I too would like to know the reason for being "all for eating meat". I think most reasonable people wouldn't eat meat (provided reasonable food alternatives) if they got to know the animals and how much they suffer. (just like most Americans would refuse to eat dogs or cats)
  - batiudrami 9y ago
    But leather subsidises the cost of raising animals for meat so reduced demand for it should raise the price of beef. Ideally that would encourage people to eat less beef, and eat more sustainable meats (or no meat at all).

gehwartzen 9y ago

Won't that leather still get used elsewhere? I don't think many animals are reared with the primarry intent of producing leather but rather becouse of our high meat demand and we can't make one without the other.

CamperBob2 9y ago
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next decade or two, once synthmeat is good enough to take over the market. Various breeds of cattle will likely go extinct, and the same social opprobrium that will wipe out the market for "real" meat will presumably affect leather goods as well.
- Xunxi 9y ago
  That is quite amusing. Nonetheless, Muslims and Jews will NEVER eat "frankenmeat" thats more than 1.8 billion people to begin with. I also very much doubt synthetic meat will take over the market unless unless there's some natural cause that cuts off every human access to meat. Westerners are moving away from the steroid bred in favor of organic breeds. Locals in developing nations mostly source meat locally even though the affluent ones still buy the shopping mall meat. Synthetic meat will be relegated to junk food status unless they hide the source and process from consumers, that's even if it makes it out of the lab into wide-scale manufacturing.
- malydok 9y ago
  When synthetic meat becomes good enough there'll still be loads of people who'll say it's inferior to the real thing. Apart from that I believe a happy cow is better than no cow so sustainable and environmentally-friendly livestock farms still have a reason to exist.
  - virgilp 9y ago
    Well, already you have "loads of people" claiming that kobe beef is better than regular beef (or that the black iberian pig is better than other kinds of pig). Yet, since meet from those animals is expensive, in practice the vast majority of meat doesn't come from these species. It can be identical with synthetic vs natural meat. Price can make the difference, and we can still reduce massively the amount of livestock we breed (e.g. make the farms more environmentally-friendly through regulation)

vanderZwan 9y ago

A couple of years ago I came across Tjeerd Veenhoven's palm leather[0][1]. It is probably not quite as super-durable as pure leather, but still quite incredible given how simple it is to produce (basically, soak a palm leaf husk in a water/glycerine solution for a few days), and given that it is mainly made from what used to be waste materials. Sadly it seems the products based on it did take off enough for it to become a thing (especially since he seemed to be doing his best to also ensure the local economy of the places where this material would be produced would benefit from it). The project got turned into a foundation that tries to support a local economy and design community, so who knows, it might make a comeback in a few years[2]. More recently Veenhoven has been developing pigments from discarded tulip flower heads[3], and fabrics based on algae[4]. [0] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/palm-leather/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/palm-leather/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo7Zfw8eLso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo7Zfw8eLso [2] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/wishful-doing-foundation/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/wishful-doing-... [3] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/tulip-pigments/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/tulip-pigments... [4] http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/algaefabrics/ http://www.tjeerdveenhoven.com/portfolio_page/algaefabrics/

optimuspaul 9y ago

I came across fish leather at a market recently. It is very durable and interesting in appearance. I don't know that it is cheaper or less dirty, but it could be. http://thefishleather.co http://thefishleather.co

pvaldes 9y ago
Is dirty in its own way, but more sustainable for sure. http://www.instructables.com/id/Urine-Tanned-Salmon-Leather/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Urine-Tanned-Salmon-Leather/