4 ms·

In modern Western culture we've killed God and I think we're learning what the consequences of that mean.

velp 9y ago
Source connecting the two? I think most here would argue the the decline in magical thinking (at least as it influences policy and society on the whole) is a good thing
- drblast 9y ago
  The original statement is ridiculous but the decline in magical thinking does lead people to stop going to church which has no obvious replacement. Atheists and agnostics don't get together every week to talk about God not existing. There are meetup groups and such now but usually there is some common interest, activity, etc. which is a higher barrier to entry than "I'll come and say we mostly believe in the same thing that neither of us can prove." A church community does have the unique characteristic that anyone can participate regardless of age, personality, or talent.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    Only recently have some churches begun to welcome different sexual orientations. 20 years ago it was basically unheard of and it is still limited in scope. Many churches still have little to no female clergy. Some have dress codes, some don't. And what you have to choose from depends on where you live: They all might be pretty conservative. Your barrier of entry is set too low. It isn't that we say we mostly believe in the same thing: It is that you must act like you believe it and not be any of these sorts of people. If you don't fit in the mold, you can't be yourself here. This makes it a bit difficult to form bonds with others if you aren't in their mold.
  - seem_2211 9y ago
    I don't think there's a decline in magical thinking. There's a decline in conventional religion, but I think a lot of people have swapped God for the universe, or fate, or karma or what have you. San Francisco isn't religious, but I don't think it's a stretch to say it's without a lot of spiritual people.
remir 9y ago
People left the church because it was stuck in a obsolete understanding of the world and did not offer people satisfactory answers to their questions. Past a certain point, if a religion wants to survive, it must renew itself, otherwise it risks becoming irrelevant. I bet there would be more people in church if the pastor said: hey, forget about the Bible, forget about the angry, prideful and violent "man in the sky" of the old testament. Forget about the old laws. Forget about the Pope. Instead, go within. You don't even have to pray or bow down to anybody. Just be silent and still your mind. Jesus told us that the "kingdom of heaven" is within us, so that's what we going to explore today. And if you don't believe in Jesus, then that's cool, too. Let's go beyond beliefs and dogma and simply connect with ourselves and be present in the moment.
- collias 9y ago
  There are a few churches like this out there today. Sadly the idea of "going to church" is so foreign or looked-down-upon these days that few people actually try it out. And eventually the churches die.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  At least some of this exists in UU churches.
- Noos 9y ago
  This is like going to a chess club and suggesting they get rid of all the rules about chess, all of the history of the game, all of the books advising people how to play it, and that annoying ranking thing, and giving them the board and pieces. Then you tell them to make up their own game and sit back and watch the social connections form. It generally doesn't work, because you can be present in the moment playing golf or sleeping in much more easily. if you try and make a chess club essentially without chess, why bother?
  - remir 9y ago
    If chess clubs are dying around the country because people lost interest in chess, that doesn't mean they aren't looking for something else to play. When Jesus spoke about churches (ekklesia), he wasn't referring to a building, an organization or leadership structure or rules. He did not speak about "sunday school", singing songs, or any or that. He was talking about a spontaneous gathering of people who felt "called out of the world to follow him and serve God". It's not like he told his disciples to go ahead and start this "Christian" religion and build the buildings that people would go to every Sunday like clock work. We are the product of culture and memories. A lot of people have a negative association with religion for a lot of different reasons, but that doesn't mean these people are not spiritual and would not appreciate meeting other like-minded individuals in a non-judgmental environment.

velp 9y ago

Source connecting the two? I think most here would argue the the decline in magical thinking (at least as it influences policy and society on the whole) is a good thing

drblast 9y ago
The original statement is ridiculous but the decline in magical thinking does lead people to stop going to church which has no obvious replacement. Atheists and agnostics don't get together every week to talk about God not existing. There are meetup groups and such now but usually there is some common interest, activity, etc. which is a higher barrier to entry than "I'll come and say we mostly believe in the same thing that neither of us can prove." A church community does have the unique characteristic that anyone can participate regardless of age, personality, or talent.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  Only recently have some churches begun to welcome different sexual orientations. 20 years ago it was basically unheard of and it is still limited in scope. Many churches still have little to no female clergy. Some have dress codes, some don't. And what you have to choose from depends on where you live: They all might be pretty conservative. Your barrier of entry is set too low. It isn't that we say we mostly believe in the same thing: It is that you must act like you believe it and not be any of these sorts of people. If you don't fit in the mold, you can't be yourself here. This makes it a bit difficult to form bonds with others if you aren't in their mold.
- seem_2211 9y ago
  I don't think there's a decline in magical thinking. There's a decline in conventional religion, but I think a lot of people have swapped God for the universe, or fate, or karma or what have you. San Francisco isn't religious, but I don't think it's a stretch to say it's without a lot of spiritual people.

remir 9y ago

People left the church because it was stuck in a obsolete understanding of the world and did not offer people satisfactory answers to their questions. Past a certain point, if a religion wants to survive, it must renew itself, otherwise it risks becoming irrelevant. I bet there would be more people in church if the pastor said: hey, forget about the Bible, forget about the angry, prideful and violent "man in the sky" of the old testament. Forget about the old laws. Forget about the Pope. Instead, go within. You don't even have to pray or bow down to anybody. Just be silent and still your mind. Jesus told us that the "kingdom of heaven" is within us, so that's what we going to explore today. And if you don't believe in Jesus, then that's cool, too. Let's go beyond beliefs and dogma and simply connect with ourselves and be present in the moment.

collias 9y ago
There are a few churches like this out there today. Sadly the idea of "going to church" is so foreign or looked-down-upon these days that few people actually try it out. And eventually the churches die.
drdeadringer 9y ago
At least some of this exists in UU churches.
Noos 9y ago
This is like going to a chess club and suggesting they get rid of all the rules about chess, all of the history of the game, all of the books advising people how to play it, and that annoying ranking thing, and giving them the board and pieces. Then you tell them to make up their own game and sit back and watch the social connections form. It generally doesn't work, because you can be present in the moment playing golf or sleeping in much more easily. if you try and make a chess club essentially without chess, why bother?
- remir 9y ago
  If chess clubs are dying around the country because people lost interest in chess, that doesn't mean they aren't looking for something else to play. When Jesus spoke about churches (ekklesia), he wasn't referring to a building, an organization or leadership structure or rules. He did not speak about "sunday school", singing songs, or any or that. He was talking about a spontaneous gathering of people who felt "called out of the world to follow him and serve God". It's not like he told his disciples to go ahead and start this "Christian" religion and build the buildings that people would go to every Sunday like clock work. We are the product of culture and memories. A lot of people have a negative association with religion for a lot of different reasons, but that doesn't mean these people are not spiritual and would not appreciate meeting other like-minded individuals in a non-judgmental environment.