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I fully agree and also think it's not the cloud users that are most affected but their users. As a customer of a bank you have little control where your bank st

by dx034 9y ago

I fully agree and also think it's not the cloud users that are most affected but their users. As a customer of a bank you have little control where your bank stores your data (although with GDPR they'd at least have to tell you if it goes to AWS). And yet, your data could be accessed by foreign prosecutors without confirmation by a local judge.

quantumwoke 9y ago
That's a great point, and it's often overlooked. To my knowledge, the best way to combat this is to create end-to-end encrypted solutions that only the customer can access. For example, Apple phones can not be cracked even by law enforcement. The corollary is that other anti-privacy practices such as data mining and tracking can no longer be used against the users. Win-win?
- yellow_postit 9y ago
  Telegram may be a better example than Apple phones given the SB FBI case and previous articles shared here about hacks. As a service, device, implementation of encryption gets more use it also will get more eyes from state actors on how to find cracks in the armor.
  - lainga 9y ago
    There was a lot of understandable disdain for Telegram when it got popular because they roll their own crypto, MTProto. However, it looks to me like Russia's recent pants-on-head move (banning 2M IP addresses because Telegram won't give up their keys) indicates that MTProto, if not a very wise development to begin with, doesn't have any obvious cracks that the FSB could just quietly pry open.
    - lightedman 9y ago
      "However, it looks to me like Russia's recent pants-on-head move (banning 2M IP addresses because Telegram won't give up their keys) indicates that MTProto, if not a very wise development to begin with, doesn't have any obvious cracks that the FSB could just quietly pry open." Or you could be falling for a classical misdirection trick, which the Russian gov't is well-known to do, and they already have the crypto broken and are doing this to cover up such a fact.
    - gravity_123 9y ago
      AFAIK telegram has channels and groups which were used in russia for purposes the govt didn't want to encourage. To my understanding, both groups and channels cannot be encrypted, so this ban has less to do with encryption but with the fact that Telegram wasn't willing to handle over the plain text chats they have on their servers.
      - opencl 9y ago
        They certainly are encrypted, they're not end to end encrypted so Telegram has the keys. Supposedly each key is stored across multiple datacenters in different legal jurisdictions so no single government can compel them to hand over the keys, but this seems like a rather questionable legal theory.
- rantagram 9y ago
  > Apple phones can not be cracked even by law enforcement Not true: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbxxxd/unlock-iphone-ios11-graykey-grayshift-police https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbxxxd/unlock-iph...
emodendroket 9y ago
It seems like it's somewhat routine to set up relationships with foreign intelligence services for that reason.

by dx034 9y ago

quantumwoke 9y ago

That's a great point, and it's often overlooked. To my knowledge, the best way to combat this is to create end-to-end encrypted solutions that only the customer can access. For example, Apple phones can not be cracked even by law enforcement. The corollary is that other anti-privacy practices such as data mining and tracking can no longer be used against the users. Win-win?

yellow_postit 9y ago
Telegram may be a better example than Apple phones given the SB FBI case and previous articles shared here about hacks. As a service, device, implementation of encryption gets more use it also will get more eyes from state actors on how to find cracks in the armor.
- lainga 9y ago
  There was a lot of understandable disdain for Telegram when it got popular because they roll their own crypto, MTProto. However, it looks to me like Russia's recent pants-on-head move (banning 2M IP addresses because Telegram won't give up their keys) indicates that MTProto, if not a very wise development to begin with, doesn't have any obvious cracks that the FSB could just quietly pry open.
  - lightedman 9y ago
    "However, it looks to me like Russia's recent pants-on-head move (banning 2M IP addresses because Telegram won't give up their keys) indicates that MTProto, if not a very wise development to begin with, doesn't have any obvious cracks that the FSB could just quietly pry open." Or you could be falling for a classical misdirection trick, which the Russian gov't is well-known to do, and they already have the crypto broken and are doing this to cover up such a fact.
  - gravity_123 9y ago
    AFAIK telegram has channels and groups which were used in russia for purposes the govt didn't want to encourage. To my understanding, both groups and channels cannot be encrypted, so this ban has less to do with encryption but with the fact that Telegram wasn't willing to handle over the plain text chats they have on their servers.
    - opencl 9y ago
      They certainly are encrypted, they're not end to end encrypted so Telegram has the keys. Supposedly each key is stored across multiple datacenters in different legal jurisdictions so no single government can compel them to hand over the keys, but this seems like a rather questionable legal theory.
rantagram 9y ago
> Apple phones can not be cracked even by law enforcement Not true: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbxxxd/unlock-iphone-ios11-graykey-grayshift-police https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbxxxd/unlock-iph...

emodendroket 9y ago

It seems like it's somewhat routine to set up relationships with foreign intelligence services for that reason.