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I'm curious as to why the motivation now? The West has been placing sanction on North Korea for years with seemingly no effect. I wonder what role, if any Chi
by Eurongreyjoy 9y ago
I'm curious as to why the motivation now? The West has been placing sanction on North Korea for years with seemingly no effect.
I wonder what role, if any China played in brokering this deal? This is only a report of what is expected to happen at the summit, so we will see if Kim Jong Un will follow through, since his military presence and proximity to South Korea and Seoul has been his best bartering chip.
- boomboomsubban 9y agoMoon Jae-in ran on the platform of increasing diplomatic ties to North Korea, and the negotiations surrounding the Olympics saw a strengthening bond between the two countries.
- ianhawes 9y agoDonald J. Trump. I would imagine this is not a popular opinion here, but he had the entire world convinced he would use nuclear weapons against North Korea. That has to have some effect on the North Korean regime.
- maxxxxx 9y agoI think he did the right thing by offering a meeting with Kim Jon Un. And he was the only one able to do it. If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit.
- north_east_dev 9y agoIt's like that old Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China."
- rainbowmverse 9y agoI like the original Klingon version: "Only Picard could go to Qo'noS."
- swebs 9y ago>If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit. Let's please not turn this thread into /r/politics
- maxxxxx 9y agoI think I stated an obvious fact.
- sho 9y agoThat category of statement cannot be a fact; it's your opinion. It might be true, it might even be obviously true, but it's not a "fact".
- Jtsummers 9y agohttps://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/17100880/north-korea-republicans-right-conservatives-obama https://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/17100880/north-korea-republican... Conservatives saying exactly what they did (condemn Obama) when he offered essentially the same thing as Trump has (with regard to talking with North Korea sans preconditions). Fact, not opinion.
- Brockenstein 9y agoWhile I understand the sentiment behind your statement. I would have bet every penny I have that the republicans would have thrown a fit and I'd be retired at 36. It's about as safe a bet as the Sun rises in the east. But only because republicans pitched a fit about anything Obama had a hand in. It was predictability as constant as the Northern star.
- sho 9y agoWell naturally I agree with you. But words are important. It's like if I state that The Beatles have, in total, more musical merit than Katy Perry. Well, that seems totally obvious too and one would be hard-pressed to find any sane adult who would disagree. Nonetheless it's not a "fact". Maybe I'm being a pedant but these little things annoy me. Words have meanings, those meanings are important. Anyway, I made my point too many times over already so I'll leave it :P
- simonh 9y agoAs they have over the Iran deal.
- cdelsolar 9y agoWhich he did, and they did.
- wwweston 9y agoWell, I suppose the moral of the story is that if you want to be seen as the only actor able to address a specific issue, the most effective tack is ruthlessly depict the motives of the opposing actors as corrupt and thoroughly tribalize it until you have a faction that will distrust any effort others make regardless of its merits. Then you're the only one that can make an effort to solve the problem. Neat. Maybe someone else besides Nixon could totally have done what he did diplomatically? > If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit. It's an interesting exercise to consider what specific hypotheses for which the conditional didn't evaluate true.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- HenryBemis 9y agoIf USA would use nukes against NK, (which borders China AND Russia) I have the feeling that the next nukes would have gone off to NY, or CA (or somewhere equally painful for the USA). Horror/WW3 scenarios apart, it's most likely that USA-originated sanctions have absolutely nothing to do with this, as if Russia and China want to support the continuation of NK-regime, there is no way to force them to stop. I'd say that pressure from Russia and China are pushing for the permanent resolution of this conflict. It's a tiny/annoying thorn in their sides, and sooner or later they will remove it.
- AndyMcConachie 9y agoI think you need to understand this kind of blustering makes the people of South Korea more afraid of the USA. It's not as if the history of the USA in S Korea is all roses and honeydew. South Koreans don't want to be in a constant state of war anymore and they don't want to be occupied by US troops. My feeling is that most South Koreans want a merge like West Germans wanted to merge with E Germans. Look at some of the policies and statements made by their new President Moon, whom was partly elected on a policy of reunification.
- dba7dba 9y agoI disagree. Is UK occupied by US forces? Germany? Eastern EU nations? Japan? And let's not kid ourselves on why Moon was elected. He was in large part elected because of strong disgust (justified) people felt against the previous impeached president. Moon was elected with 40% of the votes.
- maxxxxx 9y agoI was in Germany during the Reagan years and a lot of people were very nervous about him and the aggressive way he talked when he came in. It got better once he developed a good working relationship with Gorbachev.
- AndyMcConachie 9y agoGo read some stuff from Tim Shorrock. https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/946820801487147009 https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/946820801487147009
- swebs 9y agoNorth Korea proposed a peace treaty as far back as 2016, but the Obama administration rejected it for not addressing denuclearization. Now that Trump has been putting real military pressure on them, I think they're more willing to give up their nuclear arsenal. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear/u-s-rejected-north-korea-peace-talks-offer-before-last-nuclear-test-state-department-idUSKCN0VU0XE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear/u-s-re...
- realusername 9y agoNorth Korea will never abandon nuclear power whatever they say publicly, it's their only asset to negotiate treaties and their best asset against the US military. They will just use this fake "denuclearization" to negociate for the removal of the US military in South Korea.
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoIndeed, for a small country, nuclear weapons (and the ability to deliver them abroad) appear to presently be the only way to ensure your country doesn't get mowed over by one of the larger powers. This is the downside to Mutually Assured Destruction: Everyone not currently a part of it wants nukes so they can be a part of it.
- simonh 9y agoThere's nothing fundamentally new about the west's approach to NK. They are coming to the table because finally China started properly turning the screws on them last year with sanctions on steel, coal, seafood and even clothing. NK had enjoyed a bit of an economic summer for the last 5 years, but the Chinese clamp down is biting hard, hence Kim's recent trip to Beijing.
- ataturk 9y agoWhat's interesting is that "nuclearization" was forced upon them by outside actors. NK was freed from this outside influence and is suddenly now able to come out of the cold.
- maxerickson 9y agoNorth Korea has become a nuclear power.
- swebs 9y agoIt has been since 2006.
- maxerickson 9y agoOkay, but they got their ballistic missiles working just in recent months.
- Eurongreyjoy 9y agoDo we think that their ballistic missiles are as capable as they portray in their state run media? As far as I know, most military strategists doubt the missiles can actually reach US mainland. As for South Korea, they have always been close enough to suffer catastrophic damages by traditional non-nuclear action, so why are they willing to come to the table now? Unless they are preemptively trying to avoid retaliation on their own soil because of a US - led strike on North Korea.
- barkingcat 9y agoIn the grand scheme of things, whether they are "as capable" doesn't really matter. If a nuke goes into Hawaii, does that matter psychologically if it doesn't reach US Mainland? All they need is a credible threat of force. That's why nukes are a separate category from conventional explosive tipped ballistic missiles or cruise missiles. A dirty nuclear strike can render a place uninhabitable for the next 100 years. Imagine wiping Hawaii off the US vacation list for a century.
- Brockenstein 9y agoYeah, and the current status quo isn't permanent. It's only a matter of time before their missiles improve enough. Whether it's one year or ten years, it's going to happen. It can't not happen.
- jasonlotito 9y ago> I'm curious as to why the motivation now? North Korea has nuclear weapons. That is the difference. Some might suggest it's President Trump, but the reality is, he's only made it worse for the US. North Korea can negotiate without the US because of the weapons, and Trump's push against China and reckless and weak foreign policy (see the latest Russia sanctions going up in flames) makes him a non-actor. China will take this opportunity when the US is at it's weakest to help solidify its hold in Asia, and is already working to help the Koreas. With us backing out of the TPP and now signaling our intent to join back in, this puts us at a severe disadvantage in the region. As for North Korea, they see a way to join the rest of the world with a major ally (China) who will in effect have the most influence in the region.
- r00fus 9y agoWhen did we signal back in to the TPP!?
- jasonlotito 9y agoLess than a week ago. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nafta-auto-negotiations-1.4616597 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nafta-auto-negotiations-1.46...
- Jtsummers 9y agoAt least as of Monday. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-tpp-explainer/trump-says-u-s-could-rejoin-tpp-if-deal-improved-how-hard-would-it-be-idUSKBN1HN0TW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-tpp-expla...
- HenryBemis 9y agoIf becoming a real threat to the USA is the ticket to long-lasting Peace, then African countries are doomed :( USA has a steady Foreign Affairs strategy, that doesn't change every time the president changes. Some failed countries (e.g. Greece should learn about this continuation of Policy). Trump is the twitter guy that acts like a teenager on Redbull. I do believe that Sweden, China, USA, Russia, and others, work really hard behind the scenes to make things happen. Games will of course be played (each country to serve its own agenda) but I don't believe there is any country on this planet that wants to press the Red Button (or Τurn the Κey or whatever)
- rorykoehler 9y agoIt looked like they have been building up to this for years. Swiss educated Kim Jong Un came to power, dealt with his internal issues to gain complete control, developed the nuclear weapons capabilities to be taken seriously internationally and then reaches out to negotiate.
- crdoconnor 9y agoNorth Korea have been trying to engage in talks for years. The US and South Korea have taken the approach that North Korea needs to give concessions - in the form of demilitarisation - before talks begin. Now they don't. North Korea (quite astutely) pointed out that if they did as they were told, like Libya, they'd end up like Libya. They don't want to end up like Libya.
- lambdadmitry 9y agoArguably citizens of Libya have it better than citizens of North Korea (or Syria for that matter)
- donatj 9y agoMy thoughts exactly. Finding a way out of the inherited war without looking weak to your people is a difficult dance.
- Meegul 9y agoA few reasons. The liberals are in power in South Korea, and they have a much more friendly North Korea strategy. Couple that with the North Koreans' recent development of ICBMs and a hostile strategy seems less desirable. The US certainly doesn't want a good relationship with North Korea, but without a South Korean government supporting their policy, and with an increased threat from the North, there's not much we can do.
- paradite 9y agoHere is a very interesting comment on this topic from a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14236146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14236146