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Excuse, no. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

by fortythirteen 8y ago

coretx 8y ago
And this is why the headline reads "U.S and UK want to harm Russia" to me.
- neffy 8y ago
  It's really kind of hard to harm Russia more than it manages to harm itself. Yes, Hitler did manage to kill more Russians than Stalin did, but you could also lay the blame for at least some of that at Stalin's door, through the purges in the thirties.
  - gandhium 8y ago
    > Hitler did manage to kill more Russians than Stalin did It's debatable. Stalin's tactics of "scorched earth" and fighting with human waves may shift the toll.
    - neffy 8y ago
      Yes, I was trying to give Russia at least a little bit of wiggle room there... but honestly, they've done far more damage to themselves than anybody has done to them, pretty much throughout their history.
ajr0 8y ago
there is when it derails conversation. this is called whataboutism. we can have a separate conversation about that separate issue which I agree needs to be addressed, but not in this thread.. if you need help understanding what whatboutism is here is a great john oliver explanation [0] that will help why this is bad and that pointing out hypocrisy does not create a moral equivalency. please try to focus on the conversation, and open up a new thread on the issue you would like to discuss, not here. [0] skip to 6 minutes if you would like to get to that point, I think the entire video is worth a look. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
yesforwhat 8y ago
Highlighting the crimes of actor B to excuse the crimes of actor A is not "pointing out hypocrisy", it's an attempt to excuse a crime and confuse the conversation.
- collyw 8y ago
  I a more worried about the UK government having access to my data as its more relevant being a citizen of the UK. I think that's the point.
  - vixen99 8y ago
    You certainly should be worried if a future UK government turns out to be a drastically more coercive nature than the present. And that's on the cards.
- tomp 8y ago
  No, it's highlighting the fact that US and UK are redirecting attention from their crimes to Russia.
  - fosco 8y ago
    I think based on the conversation you can view, this entire thread has been derailed. whataboutism confirmed, no one is discussing the article and now this thread that _should_ be discussed here will get erased from the front page. >“Once you own the router, you own all the traffic, to include the chance to harvest credentials and passwords,” said Howard Marshall, deputy assistant director of the cyber division at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. “It is a tremendous weapon in the hands of an adversary.” if this were true, more effort needs to be done to encrypt traffic fully, not enabling it to be broken with trusted certificates but disabling the ability in the first place (application) from being decrypted.
    - fortythirteen 8y ago
      "Whataboutism" is just a buzzword for people who want to avoid looking at issues holistically. "Evil Actor A says look out for Evil Actor B" warrants the response "well, they're both evil actors".

Excuse, no. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

coretx 8y ago

And this is why the headline reads "U.S and UK want to harm Russia" to me.

neffy 8y ago
It's really kind of hard to harm Russia more than it manages to harm itself. Yes, Hitler did manage to kill more Russians than Stalin did, but you could also lay the blame for at least some of that at Stalin's door, through the purges in the thirties.
- gandhium 8y ago
  > Hitler did manage to kill more Russians than Stalin did It's debatable. Stalin's tactics of "scorched earth" and fighting with human waves may shift the toll.
  - neffy 8y ago
    Yes, I was trying to give Russia at least a little bit of wiggle room there... but honestly, they've done far more damage to themselves than anybody has done to them, pretty much throughout their history.

ajr0 8y ago

there is when it derails conversation. this is called whataboutism. we can have a separate conversation about that separate issue which I agree needs to be addressed, but not in this thread.. if you need help understanding what whatboutism is here is a great john oliver explanation [0] that will help why this is bad and that pointing out hypocrisy does not create a moral equivalency. please try to focus on the conversation, and open up a new thread on the issue you would like to discuss, not here. [0] skip to 6 minutes if you would like to get to that point, I think the entire video is worth a look. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

yesforwhat 8y ago

Highlighting the crimes of actor B to excuse the crimes of actor A is not "pointing out hypocrisy", it's an attempt to excuse a crime and confuse the conversation.

collyw 8y ago
I a more worried about the UK government having access to my data as its more relevant being a citizen of the UK. I think that's the point.
- vixen99 8y ago
  You certainly should be worried if a future UK government turns out to be a drastically more coercive nature than the present. And that's on the cards.
tomp 8y ago
No, it's highlighting the fact that US and UK are redirecting attention from their crimes to Russia.
- fosco 8y ago
  I think based on the conversation you can view, this entire thread has been derailed. whataboutism confirmed, no one is discussing the article and now this thread that _should_ be discussed here will get erased from the front page. >“Once you own the router, you own all the traffic, to include the chance to harvest credentials and passwords,” said Howard Marshall, deputy assistant director of the cyber division at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. “It is a tremendous weapon in the hands of an adversary.” if this were true, more effort needs to be done to encrypt traffic fully, not enabling it to be broken with trusted certificates but disabling the ability in the first place (application) from being decrypted.
  - fortythirteen 8y ago
    "Whataboutism" is just a buzzword for people who want to avoid looking at issues holistically. "Evil Actor A says look out for Evil Actor B" warrants the response "well, they're both evil actors".