4 ms·

All discrimination already is doing this, just indirectly. There's always an implication. The major one in the US is that harder working people are ethically be

by dlwdlw 8y ago

All discrimination already is doing this, just indirectly. There's always an implication. The major one in the US is that harder working people are ethically better than lazy people. This combined with the belief that hard work equals success allows for very easy punishment based mindsets to spread.

TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
I don't really understand this mindset. Are we supposed to treat people like there's absolutely no right or wrong way to live? How are we supposed to have a stable society when there are no standards by which to live by or strive for? Why shouldn't we discriminate against bad behavior and provide positive feedback for good behavior?
- 794CD01 8y ago
  Sadly, yes. These days you cannot judge anyone by your own ethical standards, only by their own. There is no right and wrong, only consistency and hypocrisy.
- edent 8y ago
  > Are we supposed to treat people like there's absolutely no right or wrong way to live? Yes. Modern society says that as long as your actions don't harm me, you should be able to do what you wish. There are some edge-cases, caveats, and exceptions - but that is the essence of modern liberalism. > How are we supposed to have a stable society when there are no standards by which to live You are assuming stability is a good thing. Progress is made through instability. You also assume that stability occurred back when society had standards. A quick look through history doesn't show any evidence of that. You also assume that stability doesn't harm people. It clearly does. When a society says no deviation is acceptable, the deviants are punished for the "crime" of existing. > Why shouldn't we discriminate against bad behavior and provide positive feedback for good behavior? Who decides what is good behaviour and what is bad? Allowing women to receive an education was considered bad behaviour in many societies. But society changes. Why should my behaviour be punished if it doesn't hurt anyone? Who I love is none of your concern.
  - TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
    > Modern society says that as long as your actions don't harm me, you should be able to do what you wish. No, modern law may strive for this ideal, but society doesn't. Society itself has a social aspect that goes beyond some modern liberalistic ideal. Since people are social and tribal, society will always have standards by which we live by. For example, people walking down the street naked will always be interpreted as crazy, regardless of any harm committed against other people. > Progress is made through instability. This depends entirely upon your definition of "progress." I personally don't think of the complete degradation of social standards as a good thing. > You also assume that stability doesn't harm people. It clearly does. Real life has winners and losers. Life is a system of inputs and outputs, and social pressure guides people into frameworks that lead to productive behavior in our society. Can they be taken too far? Sure. That, however, does not mean that _all_ social pressures are bad. For example, if a person is shamed for constant novelty-seeking through drinking, partying, and obnoxious behavior, a sense of shame may guide them into a mindset that allows for longer-term planning and goal seeking instead.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That's what laws are for. They set acceptable standards. Everything else is personal taste.

by dlwdlw 8y ago

TheAdamAndChe 8y ago

I don't really understand this mindset. Are we supposed to treat people like there's absolutely no right or wrong way to live? How are we supposed to have a stable society when there are no standards by which to live by or strive for? Why shouldn't we discriminate against bad behavior and provide positive feedback for good behavior?

794CD01 8y ago
Sadly, yes. These days you cannot judge anyone by your own ethical standards, only by their own. There is no right and wrong, only consistency and hypocrisy.
edent 8y ago
> Are we supposed to treat people like there's absolutely no right or wrong way to live? Yes. Modern society says that as long as your actions don't harm me, you should be able to do what you wish. There are some edge-cases, caveats, and exceptions - but that is the essence of modern liberalism. > How are we supposed to have a stable society when there are no standards by which to live You are assuming stability is a good thing. Progress is made through instability. You also assume that stability occurred back when society had standards. A quick look through history doesn't show any evidence of that. You also assume that stability doesn't harm people. It clearly does. When a society says no deviation is acceptable, the deviants are punished for the "crime" of existing. > Why shouldn't we discriminate against bad behavior and provide positive feedback for good behavior? Who decides what is good behaviour and what is bad? Allowing women to receive an education was considered bad behaviour in many societies. But society changes. Why should my behaviour be punished if it doesn't hurt anyone? Who I love is none of your concern.
- TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
  > Modern society says that as long as your actions don't harm me, you should be able to do what you wish. No, modern law may strive for this ideal, but society doesn't. Society itself has a social aspect that goes beyond some modern liberalistic ideal. Since people are social and tribal, society will always have standards by which we live by. For example, people walking down the street naked will always be interpreted as crazy, regardless of any harm committed against other people. > Progress is made through instability. This depends entirely upon your definition of "progress." I personally don't think of the complete degradation of social standards as a good thing. > You also assume that stability doesn't harm people. It clearly does. Real life has winners and losers. Life is a system of inputs and outputs, and social pressure guides people into frameworks that lead to productive behavior in our society. Can they be taken too far? Sure. That, however, does not mean that _all_ social pressures are bad. For example, if a person is shamed for constant novelty-seeking through drinking, partying, and obnoxious behavior, a sense of shame may guide them into a mindset that allows for longer-term planning and goal seeking instead.
maxxxxx 8y ago
That's what laws are for. They set acceptable standards. Everything else is personal taste.