5 ms·

I hope Seattle follows SF's example, as unlikely as that is in the local climate. Seattle's current adoption of bike sharing is, in large part, an effort to re

by lev99 8y ago

I hope Seattle follows SF's example, as unlikely as that is in the local climate. Seattle's current adoption of bike sharing is, in large part, an effort to reduce carbon emissions and too make more use of our roads. I am 100% for doing both of these things, but I think Bike Share programs are not the best path. Deals where University of Washington Medical Center provides employees (noticeable) extra pay for biking to work, and removing minimum parking laws in more areas are the best way to move away from car transport. Even the downtown toll will be more effective at reducing car rides than bike share programs. Bike shares pollute sidewalks, are too slow for any distance more than two miles, and too heavy for going up Seattle's hills. In addition I believe they encourage the dangerous (and locally illegal) practice of biking without a helmet. Finally, I think Seattle's DoT has higher expectations for bike share programs than will actually pan out. I wish data on their usage was more public.

nraynaud 8y ago
There is no danger to others in biking without a helmet. The helmet issue is mostly something to try to get at biking people, it is not a public health issue. That why all warning are worded along the line: “helmet prevent head injuries” (like knee pad limit knee injuries), and not “helmet improves general outcomes”. Most studies agree that head injury absent a car strike are rare and are compensated by the long term benefits over the population. The most dangerous thing in a bike is the surrounding cars.
- URSpider94 8y ago
  This, this, this. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wears a helmet when cycling in the Netherlands - not five-year-olds and certainly not adults, and absolutely everyone cycles everywhere. Yes, people do die of bike injuries, but the number is surprisingly small, something like 160 people per year out of a country of 16 million.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    The UK with a much much bigger population than the Netherlands and worse cycling provision has 102 fatalities - sound's like you have a problem.
    - opencl 8y ago
      The UK has a much bigger population but far few people actually regularly cycling. A quarter of the population in the Netherlands commutes by bike. Compared to the UK they have approximately 1/4 the population but the average person bikes 10x more. https://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/9F9F3F71-9324-46D3-AD7E-076C59F8392D/0/2015factsheetnederlandfietsland_ENG.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/9F9F3F71-9324-46D3-AD7E-076C... https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-statistics https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-stati...
    - uxp100 8y ago
      Compute this per miles traveled by bike. Or minutes spent on bikes. The comparison you chose is meaningless.
  - r27d 8y ago
    That's mostly because of the culture of respect and patience amongst all modes in Holland. In Holland people queue politely on their single speed heavy bikes at stoplights while in San Francisco we've had multiple injuries this year on Market St from bike-on-bike collisions caused by people from the back of the "pack" timing out red lights and passing stopped riders at high speeds.
- walshemj 8y ago
  Falling off a bike or scooter and hitting your head is a non trivial injury and if your unlucky can be fatal.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    You can make an argument for wearing a helmet just about anywhere including hiking, walking up stairs, and driving a car. Helmets would presumably decrease head injury rate with all those activities. But we make tradeoffs. People get very doctrinaire about wearing helmets for specific activities. Not that long ago, people never used to wear helmets downhill skiing unless they were racing. Now they're common and, for some people, are something that it's reckless not to wear. At least traditional helmets just don't fit with bike share and scooter share services. Maybe some of the flexible materials like D3O make sense for this sort of application as a compromise.
    - lev99 8y ago
      Bike share companies do not fit with helmets, and they choose to do business. I interpret this to mean bike share companies do not care about the safety of their customers.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        Especially with undocked bikes, no one has come up with a workable way to rent helmets. It seems reasonable to let adults decide on their own whether to rent or not rent and either carry their own helmet or do without.
        lev99 8y ago
        People make poor decisions all the time. We can create policies that nudge people into making better decisions. We should do this because it makes society better. Yes, I think the decision to ride a bicycle with a helmet in an American urban environment is a fundamentally better decision than to ride a bicycle without a helmet. I think we should not allow business to operate if they encourage biking without a helmet much the same way it is illegal to rent cars that do not have seat belts installed.
- lev99 8y ago
  In 2015 there were almost 467,000 bicycle injuries in the United States. This is a direct quote from the CDC regarding bicycles and helmets: "Bicycle helmets reduce the risk of head and brain injuries in the event of a crash." [0] This is a strong enough warning from an accountable and transparent source that I choose to wear a bicycle helmet every time I ride a bike and I believe people that do not wear a bicycle helmet are reckless. I believe that companies that encourage riding without a helmet do not care about the safety of their customers. Perhaps bicyclist are more likely to have a head injury if they are struck by a car. I share roadways and crosswalks to with cars when I ride. [0]https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/index.html
  - RyanCavanaugh 8y ago
    A pedestrian dies every 1.6 hours in traffic accidents in the United States. 129,000 go to the ER every year (note that the bicycle number is all injuries, not just those requiring ER treatment). Walking is more dangerous on a per-trip basis than driving. If we did a study that compared helmeted pedestrians to unhelmeted pedestrians, I'm sure the latter would fare better in terms of head injuries. Yet no one wears a helmet while walking and no one thinks Nike is irresponsible to sell you shoes that don't include a helmet.
    - lev99 8y ago
      We can always do more for safety. How would you strike the balance between public safety and too many regulations? The 2010 515,000 bicycle related injuries required ER attention, [0] so the problem is significant enough in size to merit policy. The single biggest risk factor for death or disability in bicycle accidents is head trauma, and helmets are highly effective at reducing the risk of head trauma in bicyclist. [1] Bicycle helmets are a cheap and effective preventive measure to a real public health problem. [0]https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/entertainmented/tips/HeadInjuries.html https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/enter... [1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002243751630278X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002243751...

by lev99 8y ago

nraynaud 8y ago

There is no danger to others in biking without a helmet. The helmet issue is mostly something to try to get at biking people, it is not a public health issue. That why all warning are worded along the line: “helmet prevent head injuries” (like knee pad limit knee injuries), and not “helmet improves general outcomes”. Most studies agree that head injury absent a car strike are rare and are compensated by the long term benefits over the population. The most dangerous thing in a bike is the surrounding cars.

URSpider94 8y ago
This, this, this. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wears a helmet when cycling in the Netherlands - not five-year-olds and certainly not adults, and absolutely everyone cycles everywhere. Yes, people do die of bike injuries, but the number is surprisingly small, something like 160 people per year out of a country of 16 million.
- walshemj 8y ago
  The UK with a much much bigger population than the Netherlands and worse cycling provision has 102 fatalities - sound's like you have a problem.
  - opencl 8y ago
    The UK has a much bigger population but far few people actually regularly cycling. A quarter of the population in the Netherlands commutes by bike. Compared to the UK they have approximately 1/4 the population but the average person bikes 10x more. https://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/9F9F3F71-9324-46D3-AD7E-076C59F8392D/0/2015factsheetnederlandfietsland_ENG.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/9F9F3F71-9324-46D3-AD7E-076C... https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-statistics https://www.cyclinguk.org/resources/cycling-uk-cycling-stati...
  - uxp100 8y ago
    Compute this per miles traveled by bike. Or minutes spent on bikes. The comparison you chose is meaningless.
- r27d 8y ago
  That's mostly because of the culture of respect and patience amongst all modes in Holland. In Holland people queue politely on their single speed heavy bikes at stoplights while in San Francisco we've had multiple injuries this year on Market St from bike-on-bike collisions caused by people from the back of the "pack" timing out red lights and passing stopped riders at high speeds.
walshemj 8y ago
Falling off a bike or scooter and hitting your head is a non trivial injury and if your unlucky can be fatal.
- ghaff 8y ago
  You can make an argument for wearing a helmet just about anywhere including hiking, walking up stairs, and driving a car. Helmets would presumably decrease head injury rate with all those activities. But we make tradeoffs. People get very doctrinaire about wearing helmets for specific activities. Not that long ago, people never used to wear helmets downhill skiing unless they were racing. Now they're common and, for some people, are something that it's reckless not to wear. At least traditional helmets just don't fit with bike share and scooter share services. Maybe some of the flexible materials like D3O make sense for this sort of application as a compromise.
  - lev99 8y ago
    Bike share companies do not fit with helmets, and they choose to do business. I interpret this to mean bike share companies do not care about the safety of their customers.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Especially with undocked bikes, no one has come up with a workable way to rent helmets. It seems reasonable to let adults decide on their own whether to rent or not rent and either carry their own helmet or do without.
      - lev99 8y ago
        People make poor decisions all the time. We can create policies that nudge people into making better decisions. We should do this because it makes society better. Yes, I think the decision to ride a bicycle with a helmet in an American urban environment is a fundamentally better decision than to ride a bicycle without a helmet. I think we should not allow business to operate if they encourage biking without a helmet much the same way it is illegal to rent cars that do not have seat belts installed.
lev99 8y ago
In 2015 there were almost 467,000 bicycle injuries in the United States. This is a direct quote from the CDC regarding bicycles and helmets: "Bicycle helmets reduce the risk of head and brain injuries in the event of a crash." [0] This is a strong enough warning from an accountable and transparent source that I choose to wear a bicycle helmet every time I ride a bike and I believe people that do not wear a bicycle helmet are reckless. I believe that companies that encourage riding without a helmet do not care about the safety of their customers. Perhaps bicyclist are more likely to have a head injury if they are struck by a car. I share roadways and crosswalks to with cars when I ride. [0]https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/index.html
- RyanCavanaugh 8y ago
  A pedestrian dies every 1.6 hours in traffic accidents in the United States. 129,000 go to the ER every year (note that the bicycle number is all injuries, not just those requiring ER treatment). Walking is more dangerous on a per-trip basis than driving. If we did a study that compared helmeted pedestrians to unhelmeted pedestrians, I'm sure the latter would fare better in terms of head injuries. Yet no one wears a helmet while walking and no one thinks Nike is irresponsible to sell you shoes that don't include a helmet.
  - lev99 8y ago
    We can always do more for safety. How would you strike the balance between public safety and too many regulations? The 2010 515,000 bicycle related injuries required ER attention, [0] so the problem is significant enough in size to merit policy. The single biggest risk factor for death or disability in bicycle accidents is head trauma, and helmets are highly effective at reducing the risk of head trauma in bicyclist. [1] Bicycle helmets are a cheap and effective preventive measure to a real public health problem. [0]https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/entertainmented/tips/HeadInjuries.html https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/enter... [1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002243751630278X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002243751...