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> You don't see labor getting handouts in the form of welfare and then pulling millions of dollars in bonuses the next year. Depends on what you consider socia

> You don't see labor getting handouts in the form of welfare and then pulling millions of dollars in bonuses the next year. Depends on what you consider social expenditures in the us like food stamps, social programs, medicaid , medicare and social security. > Fighting capital is like fighting your brother for inheritance when your brother won the lottery, you are on welfare cause of a disability, and your brother decides to sue you for the family heirlooms because they feel they deserve it more Who is paying welfare in this analogy. And who is the court that makes the rules for sueing. > Look at the article your even commenting on! The workers had to pee in bottles because they couldn't even take care of biology. What did the workers do to the capital owners in this case? Deprive them of a few more dollars in profit because they had the gall to not be perfectly efficient machines? The workers, as bad as they have it, would have it worse without this option. The best guarantee to improve the conditions of workers is to get more competition going, not to put some rules that can be skirted or worse, will do damage if they are followed. While amazon treats its workers like this, Seattle has expanded is expenditures two-fold, raised taxes and increase the salaries of all its public officials. Why doesnt the washington state, in all its taxing glory help workers directly instead? Because they will make more money if people ask for regulation instead of relief.

lovich 9y ago
More competition has not lead to better conditions for workers. We are currently at such a low level of employment that economists don't know what the natural level of employment is anymore and this is still happening to employees. You're argument that "they would have had it worse" assumes that that Amazon wouldn't have employees these people if they were only making billionaires instead of people worth 100s of billions. How is western society making more money and goods than ever but the average worker is doing worse while the richest are getting richer than ever? Unfettered capitalism doesn't lead to all boats rising because eventually you run against hard limits like how many ISPs can run wires on telephone polls, or how many tons of freight can be physically moved from point a to point b. Someone will eventually take control of one of these natural monoplies and extract as much rent as possible from both employees and consumers unless they are forced to do otherwise. To state that, in an era of less regulation than in America's golden age where we see the average citizen's life stagnating or even getting worse, we need even less regulation so that the people who are worth more than entire countries can compete better is at best putting your head in the sand and at worst being actively against your fellow man. Not everyone deserves a fucking Lamborghini and steak every night with our current technology but they certainly don't deserve to have to choose between food and medicine or to have to piss in a fucking bottle to save their bosses a few dollars in exchange for not being made homeless Edit:your point about the government in Seattle not helping out because they make more money from people asking for regulations is not something I am arguing against, as you certainly have a point there. I think the main problem is that most humans on an instinctual level would value a 1% gain in their resources infinitely higher than preventing a 50% loss in all of societys resources and so we end up with assholes everywhere trying their best to be the quoted example on Wikipedia about the tragedy of the commons
- conanbatt 9y ago
  > More competition has not lead to better conditions for workers. We are currently at such a low level of employment that economists don't know what the natural level of employment is anymore and this is still happening to employees. 95% extreme poverty to 5%, much higher life expectancy, exponential wealth growth and low unemployement. Your first sentence plainly contradicts reality 100%. > You're argument that "they would have had it worse" assumes that that Amazon wouldn't have employees these people if they were only making billionaires instead of people worth 100s of billions. How is western society making more money and goods than ever but the average worker is doing worse while the richest are getting richer than ever? Because thats not whats happening. Wages stagnated while half of the population entered the workforce worldwide-> if women went back to the employement levelts of the 70's you would find wages would grow quite a bit! An that is only one of the causes: another is that such propaganda always talks about the US, but doesnt see that wages of poorest countries in south east asia, or china, have grown enormously since the 70s by basically providing cheap clothes and goods to the US. > Unfettered capitalism doesn't lead to all boats rising That has been the reality since its inception. This is what the people that repeat that "trickle down doesnt work" end up believing. The unnuanced opinion that if someone has money, he has wealth (which is wrong) and if someone has wealth he has stolen (wrong again) and if wealth were distributed it would be better for all (wrong again). > To state that, in an era of less regulation than in America's golden age where we see the average citizen's life stagnating or even getting worse, we need even less regulation so that the people who are worth more than entire countries can compete better is at best putting your head in the sand and at worst being actively against your fellow man The us is not in an era of low regulation. The Us is super regulated both federally and state level. You need to train 1500 hours in an apprenticeship to be a hair stylist in california. You cant import drugs from abroad without extreme FDA regulatory costs. Doctors from outside the US need to do a residency again to be able to get a medical license in the US. Cities indulge in nymbism to be rentist about land. Taxes have regressive implementations the state economists recognize but they cant subsistitute with simpler and fairer taxes due to legal, political and tax regulations. The us has immigration quotas, for christ sake. The US government spends 37% of gdp. 37%! The government consumes all the wealth of billionaires together every year. You would wipe out all the billionaires in the world in one year of tax breaks for everyone in the us. The next year there are no more billionaires and you still have to pay the same taxes.

lovich 9y ago

More competition has not lead to better conditions for workers. We are currently at such a low level of employment that economists don't know what the natural level of employment is anymore and this is still happening to employees. You're argument that "they would have had it worse" assumes that that Amazon wouldn't have employees these people if they were only making billionaires instead of people worth 100s of billions. How is western society making more money and goods than ever but the average worker is doing worse while the richest are getting richer than ever? Unfettered capitalism doesn't lead to all boats rising because eventually you run against hard limits like how many ISPs can run wires on telephone polls, or how many tons of freight can be physically moved from point a to point b. Someone will eventually take control of one of these natural monoplies and extract as much rent as possible from both employees and consumers unless they are forced to do otherwise. To state that, in an era of less regulation than in America's golden age where we see the average citizen's life stagnating or even getting worse, we need even less regulation so that the people who are worth more than entire countries can compete better is at best putting your head in the sand and at worst being actively against your fellow man. Not everyone deserves a fucking Lamborghini and steak every night with our current technology but they certainly don't deserve to have to choose between food and medicine or to have to piss in a fucking bottle to save their bosses a few dollars in exchange for not being made homeless Edit:your point about the government in Seattle not helping out because they make more money from people asking for regulations is not something I am arguing against, as you certainly have a point there. I think the main problem is that most humans on an instinctual level would value a 1% gain in their resources infinitely higher than preventing a 50% loss in all of societys resources and so we end up with assholes everywhere trying their best to be the quoted example on Wikipedia about the tragedy of the commons

conanbatt 9y ago
> More competition has not lead to better conditions for workers. We are currently at such a low level of employment that economists don't know what the natural level of employment is anymore and this is still happening to employees. 95% extreme poverty to 5%, much higher life expectancy, exponential wealth growth and low unemployement. Your first sentence plainly contradicts reality 100%. > You're argument that "they would have had it worse" assumes that that Amazon wouldn't have employees these people if they were only making billionaires instead of people worth 100s of billions. How is western society making more money and goods than ever but the average worker is doing worse while the richest are getting richer than ever? Because thats not whats happening. Wages stagnated while half of the population entered the workforce worldwide-> if women went back to the employement levelts of the 70's you would find wages would grow quite a bit! An that is only one of the causes: another is that such propaganda always talks about the US, but doesnt see that wages of poorest countries in south east asia, or china, have grown enormously since the 70s by basically providing cheap clothes and goods to the US. > Unfettered capitalism doesn't lead to all boats rising That has been the reality since its inception. This is what the people that repeat that "trickle down doesnt work" end up believing. The unnuanced opinion that if someone has money, he has wealth (which is wrong) and if someone has wealth he has stolen (wrong again) and if wealth were distributed it would be better for all (wrong again). > To state that, in an era of less regulation than in America's golden age where we see the average citizen's life stagnating or even getting worse, we need even less regulation so that the people who are worth more than entire countries can compete better is at best putting your head in the sand and at worst being actively against your fellow man The us is not in an era of low regulation. The Us is super regulated both federally and state level. You need to train 1500 hours in an apprenticeship to be a hair stylist in california. You cant import drugs from abroad without extreme FDA regulatory costs. Doctors from outside the US need to do a residency again to be able to get a medical license in the US. Cities indulge in nymbism to be rentist about land. Taxes have regressive implementations the state economists recognize but they cant subsistitute with simpler and fairer taxes due to legal, political and tax regulations. The us has immigration quotas, for christ sake. The US government spends 37% of gdp. 37%! The government consumes all the wealth of billionaires together every year. You would wipe out all the billionaires in the world in one year of tax breaks for everyone in the us. The next year there are no more billionaires and you still have to pay the same taxes.