4 ms·

Dumpster diving is legal (in most places but not all) because the owners has, by putting something in the trash, expressed their intent to not own the item in q

by harryh 9y ago

Dumpster diving is legal (in most places but not all) because the owners has, by putting something in the trash, expressed their intent to not own the item in question anymore. A website isn't a trash can though. If I accidentally leave a diamond ring (or personal files) in public somewhere and you take them that is absolutely theft.

fenomas 9y ago
A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible - it has no other purpose. It has stronger expectations against privacy than a trash can. As such, your analogies to situations (locked houses, unattended jewelry) with the opposite expectation just disprove your point. Assuming a file is private even though it's publicly accessible on a web server is as nonsensical as assuming an object is free for the taking even though it's an unattended diamond ring.
- JorgeGT 9y ago
  I mean, it's in the name, web server. It serves things to people when people asks: - Hey, can I GET this drink? - 200 OK, here it is pal. - 204 Uh, the bottle appears to be empty - 206 I have only half the ingredients for the mix - 300 Stirred or shaken? - 301 That drink is now called this, but here it is! - 400 I can't understand what you say buddy, are you drunk? - 403 I'm sorry, but I must refuse to serve you that drink - 404 Oops, I can't seem to find the bottle - 411 How much do you want? - 413 That's too much drink! - 418 I'm actually a teapot - 503 Too busy right now!
- harryh 9y ago
  A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible False. There are lots of things on webservers that aren't public. Try to access: https://github.com/harryh/my-private-repo https://github.com/harryh/my-private-repo You can't, because github hasn't made a mistake and accidentally made all private repos public. If github screwed up one day and all private repos were temporarily made public it would be illegal for you to run a script that tried to scrape them all down to your personal hard drive.
gtlondon 9y ago
But...you would have left the diamond ring by accident. Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP. i.e. you don't return to your computer one day to find everything is public. Someone specifically took the steps to make this data public. The fact they didn't realize what they were doing isn't the fault of people that then view the data.
- foldr 9y ago
  >Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP Hmm? It's certainly possible to configure a web server incorrectly by accident.
  - gtlondon 9y ago
    That's true. But as the person knows they are configuring a web server, I would say this is more carelessness / incompetence rather than an "accident" in the same way as losing a Diamond Ring would be.
    - foldr 9y ago
      Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime. If you lose your diamond ring out of carelessness, it's still not ok for me to steal it.
      - rootlocus 9y ago
        > Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime. If his carelessness meant communicating that you could take the ring without stealing it (say placing it in the donation basket instead of his wallet), that would absolve you of your crime.
      - iak8god 9y ago
        These analogies involving valuable physical items are way off base. If I'm walking along the street and see a diamond ring lying there, I can only assume that it belongs to someone else and they've misplaced it (because it's very valuable and, crucially, there is no way for the owner to make use of its value if they've lost possession of it). I may not have any way to locate the owner, but I still recognize that it belongs to someone else and that for me to take it and keep it would deprive them of their property (probably, I should take it to the police). If you insist on analogies involving lost rings, this situation is more like taking a picture of a ring someone lost in the street than it is like taking the ring.

by harryh 9y ago

fenomas 9y ago

A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible - it has no other purpose. It has stronger expectations against privacy than a trash can. As such, your analogies to situations (locked houses, unattended jewelry) with the opposite expectation just disprove your point. Assuming a file is private even though it's publicly accessible on a web server is as nonsensical as assuming an object is free for the taking even though it's an unattended diamond ring.

JorgeGT 9y ago
I mean, it's in the name, web server. It serves things to people when people asks: - Hey, can I GET this drink? - 200 OK, here it is pal. - 204 Uh, the bottle appears to be empty - 206 I have only half the ingredients for the mix - 300 Stirred or shaken? - 301 That drink is now called this, but here it is! - 400 I can't understand what you say buddy, are you drunk? - 403 I'm sorry, but I must refuse to serve you that drink - 404 Oops, I can't seem to find the bottle - 411 How much do you want? - 413 That's too much drink! - 418 I'm actually a teapot - 503 Too busy right now!
harryh 9y ago
A web server is a thing people use to make files publicly accessible False. There are lots of things on webservers that aren't public. Try to access: https://github.com/harryh/my-private-repo https://github.com/harryh/my-private-repo You can't, because github hasn't made a mistake and accidentally made all private repos public. If github screwed up one day and all private repos were temporarily made public it would be illegal for you to run a script that tried to scrape them all down to your personal hard drive.

gtlondon 9y ago

But...you would have left the diamond ring by accident. Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP. i.e. you don't return to your computer one day to find everything is public. Someone specifically took the steps to make this data public. The fact they didn't realize what they were doing isn't the fault of people that then view the data.

foldr 9y ago
>Files don't "accidentally" become publicly accessible via HTTP Hmm? It's certainly possible to configure a web server incorrectly by accident.
- gtlondon 9y ago
  That's true. But as the person knows they are configuring a web server, I would say this is more carelessness / incompetence rather than an "accident" in the same way as losing a Diamond Ring would be.
  - foldr 9y ago
    Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime. If you lose your diamond ring out of carelessness, it's still not ok for me to steal it.
    - rootlocus 9y ago
      > Sure, but your carelessness doesn't absolve me of my crime. If his carelessness meant communicating that you could take the ring without stealing it (say placing it in the donation basket instead of his wallet), that would absolve you of your crime.
    - iak8god 9y ago
      These analogies involving valuable physical items are way off base. If I'm walking along the street and see a diamond ring lying there, I can only assume that it belongs to someone else and they've misplaced it (because it's very valuable and, crucially, there is no way for the owner to make use of its value if they've lost possession of it). I may not have any way to locate the owner, but I still recognize that it belongs to someone else and that for me to take it and keep it would deprive them of their property (probably, I should take it to the police). If you insist on analogies involving lost rings, this situation is more like taking a picture of a ring someone lost in the street than it is like taking the ring.