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You're mistaken about the article... The testing way that is being discussed is NOT about the university test (which nobody is arguing for, it's pretty stupid),

by Charuru 16y ago

You're mistaken about the article... The testing way that is being discussed is NOT about the university test (which nobody is arguing for, it's pretty stupid), but frequent testing early in life. This is already gaining significant traction in the US, as is said in the article.

Jun8 16y ago
I think test taking becomes a culture after a while, defines the education. Do you really expect to have no/less tests later in life, e.g. for colleges, once it's firmly instantiated early in life? Why is university entrance exams is deemed to be stupid and not similar tests for five year olds?
- yardie 16y ago
  I don't think that's the case. Atleast not in the US. Traditionally you were asked to take 2 tests to get into university, SAT or ACT. Around the turn of the century some of the schools dropped that requirement. What changed? The realization that 12 years of school couldn't be summed up in one saturday afternoon test. Good students were being overlooked for good test takers. The article is saying that summative tests are their not to help the student but to help the university. It really should be the other way around.
- Charuru 16y ago
  I didn't and the article certainly didn't say anything about university entrance examsesque tests for five year olds. They said frequent testing, and the more tests you have, the less important each individual test becomes. If you have a test every week in every subject, then at the end you won't need a gargantuan test that supposedly summarizes a couple of years of knowledge. You have a ton more data to look at a student from. I don't see why you would ever want NO testing. What you want is CONSTANT testing, like we have Google Analytics on all the time, not just for 2 hours to 'test' some situation.
  - Jun8 16y ago
    I never proposed having no tests (so you're no stranger to strawman arguments after all :-). My point was that constant testing was wrong. Judging by your naive comparison to Google Analytics, I think that you haven't been subjected to a brutal regimen of constant testing, starting at 7, as I was.
nandemo 16y ago
> the university test (which nobody is arguing for, it's pretty stupid), While this is not what the article is about, university entrance examinations seem to be commonplace around the world. It may not be perfect but it's hardly "stupid". In fact I find the American system rather bizarre.
- Charuru 16y ago
  Current college admissions concern themselves with various standardized tests... and then a plethora of other data. Making a decision on many, or even too many data points is always better than a decision made based on only 1 number. I don't see how that's debatable.
  - nandemo 16y ago
    > Making a decision on many, or even too many data points is always better than a decision made based on only 1 number. No, it is not always better. There are many situations where more data leads people to make non-optimal decisions. This is well known.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Most of the other data is used primarily to restrict access to certain "tribes", not to select good students. (By "tribe", I mean certain personality types and cultural groupings, not ethnic tribes. Though of course, the other data points are used to reward certain ethnic groups as well.)

by Charuru 16y ago

Jun8 16y ago

I think test taking becomes a culture after a while, defines the education. Do you really expect to have no/less tests later in life, e.g. for colleges, once it's firmly instantiated early in life? Why is university entrance exams is deemed to be stupid and not similar tests for five year olds?

yardie 16y ago
I don't think that's the case. Atleast not in the US. Traditionally you were asked to take 2 tests to get into university, SAT or ACT. Around the turn of the century some of the schools dropped that requirement. What changed? The realization that 12 years of school couldn't be summed up in one saturday afternoon test. Good students were being overlooked for good test takers. The article is saying that summative tests are their not to help the student but to help the university. It really should be the other way around.
Charuru 16y ago
I didn't and the article certainly didn't say anything about university entrance examsesque tests for five year olds. They said frequent testing, and the more tests you have, the less important each individual test becomes. If you have a test every week in every subject, then at the end you won't need a gargantuan test that supposedly summarizes a couple of years of knowledge. You have a ton more data to look at a student from. I don't see why you would ever want NO testing. What you want is CONSTANT testing, like we have Google Analytics on all the time, not just for 2 hours to 'test' some situation.
- Jun8 16y ago
  I never proposed having no tests (so you're no stranger to strawman arguments after all :-). My point was that constant testing was wrong. Judging by your naive comparison to Google Analytics, I think that you haven't been subjected to a brutal regimen of constant testing, starting at 7, as I was.

nandemo 16y ago

> the university test (which nobody is arguing for, it's pretty stupid), While this is not what the article is about, university entrance examinations seem to be commonplace around the world. It may not be perfect but it's hardly "stupid". In fact I find the American system rather bizarre.

Charuru 16y ago
Current college admissions concern themselves with various standardized tests... and then a plethora of other data. Making a decision on many, or even too many data points is always better than a decision made based on only 1 number. I don't see how that's debatable.
- nandemo 16y ago
  > Making a decision on many, or even too many data points is always better than a decision made based on only 1 number. No, it is not always better. There are many situations where more data leads people to make non-optimal decisions. This is well known.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Most of the other data is used primarily to restrict access to certain "tribes", not to select good students. (By "tribe", I mean certain personality types and cultural groupings, not ethnic tribes. Though of course, the other data points are used to reward certain ethnic groups as well.)