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Perhaps. The number 35 is a US factor, but similar orders of magnitude can be seen on the Dutch roads (factor of 22 if I recall). On Dutch roads, we have mandat

Perhaps. The number 35 is a US factor, but similar orders of magnitude can be seen on the Dutch roads (factor of 22 if I recall). On Dutch roads, we have mandatory motorcycle training, obligatory helmet wearing and relatively save drivers. All I am saying is: it's fun to enjoy a sport, I get it. As a top-roping climber, I also empathise with the thrill of adrenalin. But I just did the numbers: an average motor-cyclist will have a 6% chance to be involved in a serious motor vehicle accident in his lifetime, causing extreme trauma. 50% of those accidents involve other drivers. Think of them. They did not choose for cyclists driving 200 kph while overtaking through the middle. Did that cyclist take that other driver into account when he lays there on the tarmac? Did he take into account the years of psychological trauma he caused by his reckless behaviour?

KozmoNau7 9y ago
Ah, so the biggest factor is behavior? People also drive recklessly in cars, but they more often end up getting other people instead. So we should encourage them to ride bikes.
- edejong 9y ago
  The main factor is mode, not behaviour. The point is: the probability of paychological trauma involuntarily caused to others is much higher on a bike than on a car, regardless of behaviour. Seatbelts and other minimum driver safety are obligatory for the same reason.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    "driving 200 kph while overtaking through the middle" is reckless behavior, irrespective of the mode of transport. You don't have a bike license, do you? Your line of reasoning is very consistent with car drivers who are a bit afraid of traffic, and very afraid of "murdercycles".
    - edejong 9y ago
      Too often I see motorcycles being missed, because of their limited visibility and unpredictability. Due to that, and their higher vulnerability, they ask more attention of other road users. If I hit a car, well, it’s likely we both survive. If I hit a motorcycle I might well have a death on my consciousness.
      - KozmoNau7 9y ago
        That is because of inattentive and unskilled drivers. Most reasonable riders try to be as visible as humanly possible (and ride as if they're invisible). A motorcycle isn't unpredictable, it goes forwards or turns somewhat, just like a car.

KozmoNau7 9y ago

Ah, so the biggest factor is behavior? People also drive recklessly in cars, but they more often end up getting other people instead. So we should encourage them to ride bikes.

edejong 9y ago
The main factor is mode, not behaviour. The point is: the probability of paychological trauma involuntarily caused to others is much higher on a bike than on a car, regardless of behaviour. Seatbelts and other minimum driver safety are obligatory for the same reason.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  "driving 200 kph while overtaking through the middle" is reckless behavior, irrespective of the mode of transport. You don't have a bike license, do you? Your line of reasoning is very consistent with car drivers who are a bit afraid of traffic, and very afraid of "murdercycles".
  - edejong 9y ago
    Too often I see motorcycles being missed, because of their limited visibility and unpredictability. Due to that, and their higher vulnerability, they ask more attention of other road users. If I hit a car, well, it’s likely we both survive. If I hit a motorcycle I might well have a death on my consciousness.
    - KozmoNau7 9y ago
      That is because of inattentive and unskilled drivers. Most reasonable riders try to be as visible as humanly possible (and ride as if they're invisible). A motorcycle isn't unpredictable, it goes forwards or turns somewhat, just like a car.