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But proposals need to be politically viable in order to actually be built! Human weakness is a serious failure mode in complex engineering projects and needs t

by 7952 9y ago

But proposals need to be politically viable in order to actually be built! Human weakness is a serious failure mode in complex engineering projects and needs to be treated seriously.

girvo 9y ago
But what about when collectively we decide to optimise for short-term rather than long-term? I mean that’s basically the modus operandi of politics, and that means that engineering problems — following your line of thinking — must do the same? Because getting politicians and even regular people to care about the future has proven intractable, to my mind.
- 7952 9y ago
  That seems to be true. Although I think people can be pursuaded to care about such things. But the problem needs to be framed as a moral question rather than just an objective one. That we should adopt particular technology because it is the right thing to do. The difficulty is that these issues will become politicised and emotional. You have people like Trump emerge who think that clean energy is an abomination. But perhaps that is a step we have to go through in order to win the argument.
  - girvo 9y ago
    > Although I think people can be pursuaded to care about such things. But the problem needs to be framed as a moral question rather than just an objective one. That we should adopt particular technology because it is the right thing to do. Although it's somewhat distasteful to a lot of engineers, I completely agree with you here. It's difficult, but if we don't play politics, we will lose. Iterated prisoners dilemma, almost. > The difficulty is that these issues will become politicised and emotional. You have people like Trump emerge who think that clean energy is an abomination. But perhaps that is a step we have to go through in order to win the argument. In some ways, I think it is, yeah. A lot of the time, people (even technical ones!) don't see the future negative uses of things as particularly dire, up until it's about to come crashing down on their heads.

by 7952 9y ago

But proposals need to be politically viable in order to actually be built! Human weakness is a serious failure mode in complex engineering projects and needs to be treated seriously.

girvo 9y ago

But what about when collectively we decide to optimise for short-term rather than long-term? I mean that’s basically the modus operandi of politics, and that means that engineering problems — following your line of thinking — must do the same? Because getting politicians and even regular people to care about the future has proven intractable, to my mind.

7952 9y ago
That seems to be true. Although I think people can be pursuaded to care about such things. But the problem needs to be framed as a moral question rather than just an objective one. That we should adopt particular technology because it is the right thing to do. The difficulty is that these issues will become politicised and emotional. You have people like Trump emerge who think that clean energy is an abomination. But perhaps that is a step we have to go through in order to win the argument.
- girvo 9y ago
  > Although I think people can be pursuaded to care about such things. But the problem needs to be framed as a moral question rather than just an objective one. That we should adopt particular technology because it is the right thing to do. Although it's somewhat distasteful to a lot of engineers, I completely agree with you here. It's difficult, but if we don't play politics, we will lose. Iterated prisoners dilemma, almost. > The difficulty is that these issues will become politicised and emotional. You have people like Trump emerge who think that clean energy is an abomination. But perhaps that is a step we have to go through in order to win the argument. In some ways, I think it is, yeah. A lot of the time, people (even technical ones!) don't see the future negative uses of things as particularly dire, up until it's about to come crashing down on their heads.