4 ms·

So, guy who admits to cheating, gets banned for cheating. I don't think it's particularly interesting that he claims he only cheated in other games, and never G

So, guy who admits to cheating, gets banned for cheating. I don't think it's particularly interesting that he claims he only cheated in other games, and never Gw2.

jameskilton 9y ago
Invalid argument. That the guy admits to cheating in other games has absolutely zero bearing or relevance to Arena secretly installing this kind of invasive spyware on players' computers.
sgift 9y ago
I have a really hard time equating botting with cheating. I don't do it myself, but in my opinion if your game can be botted you botched your game design. Also, MMO cheating implies for me some damage to other players which I don't see either with botting. Anyway: Whether he botted or not is not the point of the thread. Even if everyone they caught would have cheated (according to their and your definition) that's still a pretty significant privacy intrusion from ArenaNet.
- pvg 9y ago
  MMO cheating implies for me some damage to other players which I don't see either with botting. The more you participate, the more stuff you get (for various values of 'stuff') is the central design conceit of just about all MMOs. Breaking it is one of the most drastic and damaging ways to cheat.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    Agreed. And GW2, like other MMOs, has a trading post where players can sell to other players. If you're cheating, you can crash the in-game economy which certainly does have an impact on other players.
- iooi 9y ago
  > if your game can be botted you botched your game design So Starcraft, Counter Strike, and PUBG all have botched game designs? Please..
- EpicEng 9y ago
  >but in my opinion if your game can be botted you botched your game design. That has nothing to do with the commonly accepted definition of cheating. Using in game mechanics which harm the player base in some way is considered cheating in every competitive game ever made. "The devs messed up" is not an OK to do whatever you like, that would ruin these games.
tomc1985 9y ago
Regardless of his background his analysis states pretty plainly what happened. And he is correct that anyone involved in security research can be falsely caught by such tools. The real takeaway here is the lack of care and regard that Anet exercised in the implementation of this anti-cheat system, and the callousness and ego demonstrated by the programmer posting his updates to Twitter.
iaw 9y ago
That's not what I read to be the point of the post. The way I read it the question becomes: is it acceptable for a game to spy on you in a way that violates your privacy? Are your programs private? Is it reasonable for a cheat detection system to upload all of your running processes?
- abledon 9y ago
  Doesn’t windows show you a “allow access” dialogue box somewhere and you have to agree on order to install/plAy game ?
gruez 9y ago
So what, the end justifies the means? "Who cares if they installed spyware on everyones computers, it's okay because they caught some cheaters"
- pooloo1 9y ago
  I assume the agreement the user accepted allowed them to do this. Kind of like walking into Target. They are scanning you even before you enter the doors now days, and tracking everything you do or buy. Even more so if you use their credit card. The reason they can do that is because you agree to their terms... This is also a reason why I would never log on to a Corporate companies "free WiFi" ...
digi_owl 9y ago
One thing to note is that one of the programs they flagged accounts for, Cheat Engine, is basically a memory modifier similar to what you find in console emulators (or what GameShark or similar used to do). It should have limited effect on any competently written online game as the game state would be decided by the server, not the client.
- v0x 9y ago
  Well, yes, online games should be resilient to memory modification, but few are coded perfectly to prevent this (and many games, even AAA MMORPGs like WoW, let the client get away with way more than it should). The smart thing to do is to look for when tools are actually injecting themselves into your process, not just looking for the presence of the process itself. That is just a completely inept way of going about it.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Cheat engine can be used to automate various in game actions either directly via macros or by identifying the memory addresses involved which you can then abuse via other means. So in essence it can be constitute as cheating even if you don’t break any game mechanics directly but simply automate actions which most online games prohibit.
larkeith 9y ago
Argument ad hominem: The author's character and actions bear no relevance to his arguments' validity.

So, guy who admits to cheating, gets banned for cheating. I don't think it's particularly interesting that he claims he only cheated in other games, and never Gw2.

jameskilton 9y ago

Invalid argument. That the guy admits to cheating in other games has absolutely zero bearing or relevance to Arena secretly installing this kind of invasive spyware on players' computers.

sgift 9y ago

I have a really hard time equating botting with cheating. I don't do it myself, but in my opinion if your game can be botted you botched your game design. Also, MMO cheating implies for me some damage to other players which I don't see either with botting. Anyway: Whether he botted or not is not the point of the thread. Even if everyone they caught would have cheated (according to their and your definition) that's still a pretty significant privacy intrusion from ArenaNet.

pvg 9y ago
MMO cheating implies for me some damage to other players which I don't see either with botting. The more you participate, the more stuff you get (for various values of 'stuff') is the central design conceit of just about all MMOs. Breaking it is one of the most drastic and damaging ways to cheat.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Agreed. And GW2, like other MMOs, has a trading post where players can sell to other players. If you're cheating, you can crash the in-game economy which certainly does have an impact on other players.
iooi 9y ago
> if your game can be botted you botched your game design So Starcraft, Counter Strike, and PUBG all have botched game designs? Please..
EpicEng 9y ago
>but in my opinion if your game can be botted you botched your game design. That has nothing to do with the commonly accepted definition of cheating. Using in game mechanics which harm the player base in some way is considered cheating in every competitive game ever made. "The devs messed up" is not an OK to do whatever you like, that would ruin these games.

tomc1985 9y ago

Regardless of his background his analysis states pretty plainly what happened. And he is correct that anyone involved in security research can be falsely caught by such tools. The real takeaway here is the lack of care and regard that Anet exercised in the implementation of this anti-cheat system, and the callousness and ego demonstrated by the programmer posting his updates to Twitter.

iaw 9y ago

That's not what I read to be the point of the post. The way I read it the question becomes: is it acceptable for a game to spy on you in a way that violates your privacy? Are your programs private? Is it reasonable for a cheat detection system to upload all of your running processes?

abledon 9y ago
Doesn’t windows show you a “allow access” dialogue box somewhere and you have to agree on order to install/plAy game ?

gruez 9y ago

So what, the end justifies the means? "Who cares if they installed spyware on everyones computers, it's okay because they caught some cheaters"

pooloo1 9y ago
I assume the agreement the user accepted allowed them to do this. Kind of like walking into Target. They are scanning you even before you enter the doors now days, and tracking everything you do or buy. Even more so if you use their credit card. The reason they can do that is because you agree to their terms... This is also a reason why I would never log on to a Corporate companies "free WiFi" ...

digi_owl 9y ago

One thing to note is that one of the programs they flagged accounts for, Cheat Engine, is basically a memory modifier similar to what you find in console emulators (or what GameShark or similar used to do). It should have limited effect on any competently written online game as the game state would be decided by the server, not the client.

v0x 9y ago
Well, yes, online games should be resilient to memory modification, but few are coded perfectly to prevent this (and many games, even AAA MMORPGs like WoW, let the client get away with way more than it should). The smart thing to do is to look for when tools are actually injecting themselves into your process, not just looking for the presence of the process itself. That is just a completely inept way of going about it.
dogma1138 9y ago
Cheat engine can be used to automate various in game actions either directly via macros or by identifying the memory addresses involved which you can then abuse via other means. So in essence it can be constitute as cheating even if you don’t break any game mechanics directly but simply automate actions which most online games prohibit.

larkeith 9y ago

Argument ad hominem: The author's character and actions bear no relevance to his arguments' validity.