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We're definitely at the point in history where we have to get out of these app stores. I get it if you're doing a game or something that's fine, stay in the app

We're definitely at the point in history where we have to get out of these app stores. I get it if you're doing a game or something that's fine, stay in the app store. But I don't know how many times I've been extremely frustrated with a website telling me to get their app. * They break my in-browser password store * They introduce extremely complicated "app-only" device links for Oauth * Updating your UI for most apps shouldn't require an app-store push (don't talk to me about ionic) This is the same fight but different players that we're currently facing in getting away from Social Platforms.

rrdharan 9y ago
FWIW with iOS 11 re: your 1st point, the Safari/iCloud Keychain password store is available to native apps as well. https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11s-password-autofill-feature-in-apps/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11s-password-auto... I've found it quite useful.
- rahoulb 9y ago
  As is Lastpass/1Password
judah 9y ago
Yep, I hear you. Unfortunately, the status quo today is, that's where the users are. I love the free and opened web. I want it to win. I think it will win and eat native apps (PWAs are already making that happen.) But the barriers to this right now are 1) app stores are where users are and 2) some mobile platforms (read: Apple) have a perverse incentive to cripple web apps so that submitting native apps to their store (and thus, paying them $99/year + 30% in-app purchases) is required to have a first-class experience.
- Silhouette 9y ago
  Unfortunately, the status quo today is, that's where the users are. I've seen a few people make this argument, but no real data. Does anyone have any relevant stats about web vs. app store sales, perhaps the ratios between customer numbers and/or revenues through different channels, that they'd be willing to share?
  - judah 9y ago
    The number of registered users per day has tripled since I added my app to all 3 app stores. Most of the registrations come from Android.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      Interesting, thanks. Would you mind sharing whether your revenues changed by about the same factor?
- mamcx 9y ago
  > 2) some mobile platforms (read: Apple) You mean Google. Android webviews are VERY slow. Tha comnpound with the overall bad android OS (terrible privacy and security, terrible overal performance).
  - floatboth 9y ago
    > Android webviews are VERY slow Huh? Since KitKat I think, WebView is updatable (and is on the App Store), plus browsers like Chrome and Firefox can provide their own WebView implementation. Most people with non-ancient phones are probably using Chrome's engine in all WebViews. And also, old engine doesn't even mean "slow". Only Apple used to an actual problem here, because for a long long time there was no JS JIT in WebViews.
    - mamcx 9y ago
      That is the theory. Hold a iPhone and and android and run the same web-browser apps and look for yourself. I have tested several demos by ionic, framework7, etc... is amazing how slow are androids...
      - robocat 9y ago
        My guess is that the difference in speed is mostly due to hardware, not the browser. Apple hardware benchmarks well beats Android hardware: http://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks http://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks Given Safari can optimise for a single GPU target (which is also probably faster), it is likely the speed differences are not due to the browsers per se.
        mamcx 9y ago
        And that is the reality for a large section of users.
  - pier25 9y ago
    Android webviews are WAY better. Not only in terms of performance but specially in terms of standard behaviour. I've been dealing with UIWebView and WKWebView problems for over 3 years now, but Android webviews have given me zero problems.
- briandear 9y ago
  Does the free and open web have support for augmented reality? On device security? On device machine learning? Accurate GPS? Accelerometers? What about low level graphics? The “web” is great for websites and CRUD— not so good if you’re trying to go beyond that.
throwaway_80bf3 9y ago
One of the ones I hate most is Reddit, which actually has a pretty good web interface. The worst part about their app is I can't search for words in threads.
- akmarinov 9y ago
  I'm actually on the other side of this - it's really easy to use their app to browse posts and read comments, where it's a bit more involved using the web interface.
- babuskov 9y ago
  I browse the mobile reddit all the time and constant nagging to use the app was a real PITA until I discovered that I don't have to press the link to hide the "browse with the app overlay". You can simply scroll down and it will go away.
- 333c 9y ago
  My experience with Reddit mobile web has been frustrating, because every page has a secondary loading period that is entirely unnecessary and seems to only be loading styling and JS libraries. The old Reddit mobile (i.reddit.com, I believe) was fairly simple HTML (though to be fair, it didn't look good) that loaded quickly and felt responsive.
gkya 9y ago
> Updating your UI This is what I hate with the current software development culture. It's not your UI once it's on my things, its MINE. You shouldn't be able to touch it once I have it.

rrdharan 9y ago

FWIW with iOS 11 re: your 1st point, the Safari/iCloud Keychain password store is available to native apps as well. https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11s-password-autofill-feature-in-apps/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11s-password-auto... I've found it quite useful.

rahoulb 9y ago
As is Lastpass/1Password

judah 9y ago

Yep, I hear you. Unfortunately, the status quo today is, that's where the users are. I love the free and opened web. I want it to win. I think it will win and eat native apps (PWAs are already making that happen.) But the barriers to this right now are 1) app stores are where users are and 2) some mobile platforms (read: Apple) have a perverse incentive to cripple web apps so that submitting native apps to their store (and thus, paying them $99/year + 30% in-app purchases) is required to have a first-class experience.

Silhouette 9y ago
Unfortunately, the status quo today is, that's where the users are. I've seen a few people make this argument, but no real data. Does anyone have any relevant stats about web vs. app store sales, perhaps the ratios between customer numbers and/or revenues through different channels, that they'd be willing to share?
- judah 9y ago
  The number of registered users per day has tripled since I added my app to all 3 app stores. Most of the registrations come from Android.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    Interesting, thanks. Would you mind sharing whether your revenues changed by about the same factor?
mamcx 9y ago
> 2) some mobile platforms (read: Apple) You mean Google. Android webviews are VERY slow. Tha comnpound with the overall bad android OS (terrible privacy and security, terrible overal performance).
- floatboth 9y ago
  > Android webviews are VERY slow Huh? Since KitKat I think, WebView is updatable (and is on the App Store), plus browsers like Chrome and Firefox can provide their own WebView implementation. Most people with non-ancient phones are probably using Chrome's engine in all WebViews. And also, old engine doesn't even mean "slow". Only Apple used to an actual problem here, because for a long long time there was no JS JIT in WebViews.
  - mamcx 9y ago
    That is the theory. Hold a iPhone and and android and run the same web-browser apps and look for yourself. I have tested several demos by ionic, framework7, etc... is amazing how slow are androids...
    - robocat 9y ago
      My guess is that the difference in speed is mostly due to hardware, not the browser. Apple hardware benchmarks well beats Android hardware: http://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks http://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks Given Safari can optimise for a single GPU target (which is also probably faster), it is likely the speed differences are not due to the browsers per se.
      - mamcx 9y ago
        And that is the reality for a large section of users.
- pier25 9y ago
  Android webviews are WAY better. Not only in terms of performance but specially in terms of standard behaviour. I've been dealing with UIWebView and WKWebView problems for over 3 years now, but Android webviews have given me zero problems.
briandear 9y ago
Does the free and open web have support for augmented reality? On device security? On device machine learning? Accurate GPS? Accelerometers? What about low level graphics? The “web” is great for websites and CRUD— not so good if you’re trying to go beyond that.

throwaway_80bf3 9y ago

One of the ones I hate most is Reddit, which actually has a pretty good web interface. The worst part about their app is I can't search for words in threads.

akmarinov 9y ago
I'm actually on the other side of this - it's really easy to use their app to browse posts and read comments, where it's a bit more involved using the web interface.
babuskov 9y ago
I browse the mobile reddit all the time and constant nagging to use the app was a real PITA until I discovered that I don't have to press the link to hide the "browse with the app overlay". You can simply scroll down and it will go away.
333c 9y ago
My experience with Reddit mobile web has been frustrating, because every page has a secondary loading period that is entirely unnecessary and seems to only be loading styling and JS libraries. The old Reddit mobile (i.reddit.com, I believe) was fairly simple HTML (though to be fair, it didn't look good) that loaded quickly and felt responsive.

gkya 9y ago

> Updating your UI This is what I hate with the current software development culture. It's not your UI once it's on my things, its MINE. You shouldn't be able to touch it once I have it.