4 ms·

Lately I am pretty shocked when I try to search for some useful, practical stuff on eBay - almost everything I need is shipped directly from China with free shi

by bitL 9y ago

Lately I am pretty shocked when I try to search for some useful, practical stuff on eBay - almost everything I need is shipped directly from China with free shipping and for peanuts. Sellers outside China buy the same stuff, at best rebrand it and sell with 50%-100% markup. I don't think this is a good sign for Western countries to be honest.

jacquesm 9y ago
> I don't think this is a good sign for Western countries to be honest. Agreed, but the writing has been on the wall ever since the first set of Rubbermaid molds shipped to China (iirc on account of Walmart pushing them to lower their prices).
- bitL 9y ago
  Yeah. But now that pertains to many more technological gadgets than in the past. It's the same cycle as done by Germany and Japan in the past, i.e. first flood markets with laughable but cheap stuff, then continuously improve, stop being a laughing stock but a decent though cheaper alternative, then start getting into high margin stuff and unseat leaders (which is the current phase of China), then take over quality production, raise prices and become rich (which is the game we are starting to see being played right now).
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    And neither Japan nor Germany had a 1.4 billion people internal market.
    - generalmycoup 9y ago
      lol many moronic companies were lured to China 10-20 years ago by '1.4 billion people'. then they realized they had to give up 50% of company, their IP were stolen, the 1.4 billion customers never came because China's upper middle class income is $1000/month and half the population made $200/month, they had to give up board seats to Chinese officials, they gained some customers in China but lost most of their customers in NA, Europe and Japan because Chinese competitors sponsored by states stole them, they lost sales due to Alibaba, Amazon and Ebay shipped counterfeit products that was copied exactly like their own, directly to customers. And they died. btw jacquesm did you go to the dark side of dictatorship? why are you openly supporting China?
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        > why are you openly supporting China? I think you have reading comprehension issues if you feel that I'm supporting China. It helps to actually try to understand something if you want to solve it. That's nothing to do with 'supporting China', but everything to do with analyzing how we got here and what will get us out. Hint: trade wars - either direct or by proxy - and protectionism are not going to get us out. Japan used to be viewed in much the same way as China is today: cheap counterfeiter of Western designs. Korea ditto. And now, 30 years later they produce stuff on par with what the West was - not is - once capable of. China is also going that route but is substantially larger and far more ruthlessly managed. If we don't wise up and start playing this game a little smarter we will end up losing it in a big way.
        generalmycoup 9y ago
        fair enough. I think US is playing the game pretty well. US is threatening to block their huge customer base from China, unless China plays fair, allows 100% ownership from foreigners and opens up their market and stop stealing IP, like they promised when they got into WTO. Via trade wars and protectionism. Not sure what else US can do besides completely stop trading with China. And remember you're now dealing with a dictator. Dictators are irrational, stupid with economics, and lots of arrogance. They only respond to massive threat, which they did (thus saying they want to reduce tariff on cars)
        Intermernet 9y ago
        >irrational, stupid with economics, and lots of arrogance. They only respond to massive threat From an outside perspective (Australia), it seems that the current US president matches this description as well. At this point it may be a good idea for at least one of the leaders involved in this trade war to step back and push for reasonable debate. Unfortunately I don't see either Xi Jinping or Donald Trump doing this, so I'm not sure if I'd agree with "US is playing the game pretty well". If the US completely stops trading with China it won't be good for either party, and it would probably have negative carry-on effects to most of the global economy. We're in a state of economic brinkmanship, and we don't want to start an economic world-war.
Aengeuad 9y ago
The markup is there because western sellers need to comply with western laws, namely that they need to include tax with the final price and they accept responsibility for replacing faulty and defective products. These are the primary things Chinese sellers avoid, as the responsibility for paying tax ends up on the end consumer which usually means it isn't paid unless customs are doing their job well, and while most Chinese sellers will accept returns for replacement return postage to China is usually cost prohibitive for most items. Not to mention that western sellers are usually acting as resellers or middlemen, regardless of where the product originates it's always cheaper to skip the middleman and buy directly from the manufacturers but this is something that western businesses and manufacturers tend to avoid.
woolvalley 9y ago
ePacket subsidizes shipping to the USA from China: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-usps-epacket-gives-postal-subsidies-to-chinese-e-commerce-merchants-to-ship-to-the-usa-cheap/#1e2b2fc240ca https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-...

by bitL 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago

> I don't think this is a good sign for Western countries to be honest. Agreed, but the writing has been on the wall ever since the first set of Rubbermaid molds shipped to China (iirc on account of Walmart pushing them to lower their prices).

bitL 9y ago
Yeah. But now that pertains to many more technological gadgets than in the past. It's the same cycle as done by Germany and Japan in the past, i.e. first flood markets with laughable but cheap stuff, then continuously improve, stop being a laughing stock but a decent though cheaper alternative, then start getting into high margin stuff and unseat leaders (which is the current phase of China), then take over quality production, raise prices and become rich (which is the game we are starting to see being played right now).
- jacquesm 9y ago
  And neither Japan nor Germany had a 1.4 billion people internal market.
  - generalmycoup 9y ago
    lol many moronic companies were lured to China 10-20 years ago by '1.4 billion people'. then they realized they had to give up 50% of company, their IP were stolen, the 1.4 billion customers never came because China's upper middle class income is $1000/month and half the population made $200/month, they had to give up board seats to Chinese officials, they gained some customers in China but lost most of their customers in NA, Europe and Japan because Chinese competitors sponsored by states stole them, they lost sales due to Alibaba, Amazon and Ebay shipped counterfeit products that was copied exactly like their own, directly to customers. And they died. btw jacquesm did you go to the dark side of dictatorship? why are you openly supporting China?
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      > why are you openly supporting China? I think you have reading comprehension issues if you feel that I'm supporting China. It helps to actually try to understand something if you want to solve it. That's nothing to do with 'supporting China', but everything to do with analyzing how we got here and what will get us out. Hint: trade wars - either direct or by proxy - and protectionism are not going to get us out. Japan used to be viewed in much the same way as China is today: cheap counterfeiter of Western designs. Korea ditto. And now, 30 years later they produce stuff on par with what the West was - not is - once capable of. China is also going that route but is substantially larger and far more ruthlessly managed. If we don't wise up and start playing this game a little smarter we will end up losing it in a big way.
      - generalmycoup 9y ago
        fair enough. I think US is playing the game pretty well. US is threatening to block their huge customer base from China, unless China plays fair, allows 100% ownership from foreigners and opens up their market and stop stealing IP, like they promised when they got into WTO. Via trade wars and protectionism. Not sure what else US can do besides completely stop trading with China. And remember you're now dealing with a dictator. Dictators are irrational, stupid with economics, and lots of arrogance. They only respond to massive threat, which they did (thus saying they want to reduce tariff on cars)
        Intermernet 9y ago
        >irrational, stupid with economics, and lots of arrogance. They only respond to massive threat From an outside perspective (Australia), it seems that the current US president matches this description as well. At this point it may be a good idea for at least one of the leaders involved in this trade war to step back and push for reasonable debate. Unfortunately I don't see either Xi Jinping or Donald Trump doing this, so I'm not sure if I'd agree with "US is playing the game pretty well". If the US completely stops trading with China it won't be good for either party, and it would probably have negative carry-on effects to most of the global economy. We're in a state of economic brinkmanship, and we don't want to start an economic world-war.

Aengeuad 9y ago

The markup is there because western sellers need to comply with western laws, namely that they need to include tax with the final price and they accept responsibility for replacing faulty and defective products. These are the primary things Chinese sellers avoid, as the responsibility for paying tax ends up on the end consumer which usually means it isn't paid unless customs are doing their job well, and while most Chinese sellers will accept returns for replacement return postage to China is usually cost prohibitive for most items. Not to mention that western sellers are usually acting as resellers or middlemen, regardless of where the product originates it's always cheaper to skip the middleman and buy directly from the manufacturers but this is something that western businesses and manufacturers tend to avoid.

woolvalley 9y ago

ePacket subsidizes shipping to the USA from China: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-usps-epacket-gives-postal-subsidies-to-chinese-e-commerce-merchants-to-ship-to-the-usa-cheap/#1e2b2fc240ca https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-...