6 ms·

I disagree. If you regulate the company doesn't enforce the results of the regulation then you further punish like this. To not further punish would be to clo

I disagree. If you regulate the company doesn't enforce the results of the regulation then you further punish like this. To not further punish would be to cloud the waters. Business wants to know where it stands and for the waters to be clear. These guys clearly broke the rules and are being punished and all the other companies will be pleased about the clarification of where the lines are.

jacquesm 9y ago
Yes, and as a result you will soon see a viable Qualcomm competitor in China or Taiwan. Btw, Taiwan, not China should be the point of focus, without Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing capabilities a very large number of Western companies would suddenly be without product.
- ausjke 9y ago
  that's totally correct, Taiwan produces most of the wafers
- thisisit 9y ago
  > without Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing capabilities a very large number of Western companies would suddenly be without product. Yes and similarly without Western markets Taiwanese semiconductor will suddenly without a big paying customer. There is a "demand" and a supply, none of them exist on their own.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    You are missing the detail that China is also a 'big paying customer' and that it's getting to the point where we need Taiwan - and China - a lot more than they need us. This is a problem that Western companies, countries, consumers and voters will ignore at their peril.
    - generalmycoup 9y ago
      US + EU + Japan (who respect IP) = 40T GDP China (who doesn't respect IP) = 11T GDP pretty sure China needs the developed world's customers more than they need China. China can be replaced by automation and other developing countries for labor
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        Have a look at the rate of growth. > pretty sure China needs the developed world's customers more than they need China. For now, yes. > China can be replaced by automation and other developing countries for labor We'll see. For now they seem to be doing pretty good, and in fact even if they replace their workers with automation they will do even better than they do today. Or do you believe that automation will magically bring back the production facilities?
        generalmycoup 9y ago
        > Have a look at the rate of growth. their rate of growth is faked. have a look at their provinces confessing a 20-30% fake revenue https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-how-china-s-regions-fare-in-the-fake-gdp-data-stakes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-h... > For now they seem to be doing pretty good Their economy is saddled with debt, and their growth is slowing/stopping so much that Xi JingPing had no choice but to announce dictatorship way earlier (before riots and revolutions), their money is fleeing the country, their stock market crashed, they have demographics crisis, gender crisis, middle income trap crisis, the population's money are all stuck in real estate bubbles which are now deflating, their exports are down, their imports are up, their factories moving to other countries, etc.
        hungryhobo 9y ago
        Sigh you really need to get out more.
        Kadin 9y ago
        I find it odd whenever people claim that there's just no possible way production can't be shifted back to North America and Europe. If there's no labor advantage, offshoring production is a logistical nightmare. I mean, the factories that production was offshored to (in China and more recently in SE Asia) were built largely in the last decade or two, by companies with fairly short ROI horizons. There's no particular reason that new facilities couldn't be built in other locations in about the same amount of time. Intriguingly, China basically showed how quickly you can move a big chunk of global industrial production around from one place to another, and it's not that long. What global trade giveth, global trade can taketh away. Modern factories are basically just big steel sheds built on concrete slabs, in which you house machinery and equipment that becomes obsolete over time. It would not be hard to build them elsewhere. My guess is that if you take labor costs away, the next critical factors are energy costs and transportation issues (both raw materials inbound and finished goods outbound). It could lead to some interesting manufacturing locations.
- generalmycoup 9y ago
  You have some confusion here. Taiwan != China (seperate country). and Taiwan respects IP

jacquesm 9y ago

Yes, and as a result you will soon see a viable Qualcomm competitor in China or Taiwan. Btw, Taiwan, not China should be the point of focus, without Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing capabilities a very large number of Western companies would suddenly be without product.

ausjke 9y ago
that's totally correct, Taiwan produces most of the wafers
thisisit 9y ago
> without Taiwanese semiconductor manufacturing capabilities a very large number of Western companies would suddenly be without product. Yes and similarly without Western markets Taiwanese semiconductor will suddenly without a big paying customer. There is a "demand" and a supply, none of them exist on their own.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  You are missing the detail that China is also a 'big paying customer' and that it's getting to the point where we need Taiwan - and China - a lot more than they need us. This is a problem that Western companies, countries, consumers and voters will ignore at their peril.
  - generalmycoup 9y ago
    US + EU + Japan (who respect IP) = 40T GDP China (who doesn't respect IP) = 11T GDP pretty sure China needs the developed world's customers more than they need China. China can be replaced by automation and other developing countries for labor
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Have a look at the rate of growth. > pretty sure China needs the developed world's customers more than they need China. For now, yes. > China can be replaced by automation and other developing countries for labor We'll see. For now they seem to be doing pretty good, and in fact even if they replace their workers with automation they will do even better than they do today. Or do you believe that automation will magically bring back the production facilities?
      - generalmycoup 9y ago
        > Have a look at the rate of growth. their rate of growth is faked. have a look at their provinces confessing a 20-30% fake revenue https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-how-china-s-regions-fare-in-the-fake-gdp-data-stakes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-h... > For now they seem to be doing pretty good Their economy is saddled with debt, and their growth is slowing/stopping so much that Xi JingPing had no choice but to announce dictatorship way earlier (before riots and revolutions), their money is fleeing the country, their stock market crashed, they have demographics crisis, gender crisis, middle income trap crisis, the population's money are all stuck in real estate bubbles which are now deflating, their exports are down, their imports are up, their factories moving to other countries, etc.
        hungryhobo 9y ago
        Sigh you really need to get out more.
      - Kadin 9y ago
        I find it odd whenever people claim that there's just no possible way production can't be shifted back to North America and Europe. If there's no labor advantage, offshoring production is a logistical nightmare. I mean, the factories that production was offshored to (in China and more recently in SE Asia) were built largely in the last decade or two, by companies with fairly short ROI horizons. There's no particular reason that new facilities couldn't be built in other locations in about the same amount of time. Intriguingly, China basically showed how quickly you can move a big chunk of global industrial production around from one place to another, and it's not that long. What global trade giveth, global trade can taketh away. Modern factories are basically just big steel sheds built on concrete slabs, in which you house machinery and equipment that becomes obsolete over time. It would not be hard to build them elsewhere. My guess is that if you take labor costs away, the next critical factors are energy costs and transportation issues (both raw materials inbound and finished goods outbound). It could lead to some interesting manufacturing locations.
generalmycoup 9y ago
You have some confusion here. Taiwan != China (seperate country). and Taiwan respects IP