3 ms·

>So China will be 'open for business' And open to steal your IP as they always have.

jacquesm 9y ago
See also: Japan, Korea, Russia and to a lesser extent India. The only countries that have strong IP laws are the US and the EU and it works against us as much as it works for a small group of very wealthy countries and individuals. The whole idea of IP originated here.
- jklinger410 9y ago
  I'd be interested in seeing evidence of South Korea and Japan considering they are in trade leagues with us. Japan did a lot of IP theft in the 50s/60s but I don't think those two are really in the same camp as Russia or China.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    In the 70's and the 80's there was a huge shift of electronics manufacturing from Europe and the United States to Japan. From Grundig, Magnavox, Ferranti, Philips, Aristona, Sylvania and I don't remember how many other brands that were so common the brand logos were just about everywhere to Sony, Akai, JVC and so on. It took less than a decade (say 1975 to 1985) for the situation to reverse completely, where before the Japanese brands were perceived as cheap knock-offs to where the Japanese brands were perceived as superior quality wise. The same happened with a lot of semiconductor fabrication and ditto on the tool front with companies like Okuma taking the bread and butter away from the likes of Cincinnati and Bridgeport. Some of those brands survived but significantly diminished in stature and turnover, some of them turned into little more than patent portfolios. As for South Korea, it took a bit longer to get of the ground and for the longest time the quality wasn't there but today they are only a little bit under the Japanese but still substantially ahead of the Chinese when it comes to mechanical affairs, and in semiconductors they are an absolute powerhouse. Also interesting: Almost all powerful industrial countries came through a major war with their infrastructure in tatters, Germany, Japan and South Korea all had their industrial capability decimated by wars, only to bounce back stronger than before, presumably because they (forcibly) shed their old production gear and could start afresh using the most modern technology available. China never really had that advantage which is one of the reasons it is taking them as long as it does to get to parity on the quality front. Outside of Foxconn the work being done in China is still surprisingly manual, though in time obviously they too will automate.
    - jklinger410 9y ago
      Ok but I am talking about current, not historical, IP theft.
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        In the present things are fine, but IP theft is how a nation that is not yet at parity with the rest of the world will try to save a couple of years and there is much historical precedent for that. China is already changing its position on IP and by the time they've reached parity and will do as much R&D as the rest of the world they will be IP rights champions too. Big indicators are the number of patents filed by a country and the royalties derived from those patents as well as the production of media and such for global consumption.
    - paganel 9y ago
      > where before the Japanese brands were perceived as cheap knock-offs to where the Japanese brands were perceived as superior quality wise. There is a famous Bollywood song from 1955 where the lead actor, the even more famous Raj Kapoor , plays a beggar-like character who sings about "Japanese shoes", which at the time were seen as "cheap knock-offs" only worn by poor people. Here's the song on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQwPwmsUC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQwPwmsUC0
- sho 9y ago
  See also the USA, back in the day!

See also: Japan, Korea, Russia and to a lesser extent India. The only countries that have strong IP laws are the US and the EU and it works against us as much as it works for a small group of very wealthy countries and individuals. The whole idea of IP originated here.

jklinger410 9y ago
I'd be interested in seeing evidence of South Korea and Japan considering they are in trade leagues with us. Japan did a lot of IP theft in the 50s/60s but I don't think those two are really in the same camp as Russia or China.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  In the 70's and the 80's there was a huge shift of electronics manufacturing from Europe and the United States to Japan. From Grundig, Magnavox, Ferranti, Philips, Aristona, Sylvania and I don't remember how many other brands that were so common the brand logos were just about everywhere to Sony, Akai, JVC and so on. It took less than a decade (say 1975 to 1985) for the situation to reverse completely, where before the Japanese brands were perceived as cheap knock-offs to where the Japanese brands were perceived as superior quality wise. The same happened with a lot of semiconductor fabrication and ditto on the tool front with companies like Okuma taking the bread and butter away from the likes of Cincinnati and Bridgeport. Some of those brands survived but significantly diminished in stature and turnover, some of them turned into little more than patent portfolios. As for South Korea, it took a bit longer to get of the ground and for the longest time the quality wasn't there but today they are only a little bit under the Japanese but still substantially ahead of the Chinese when it comes to mechanical affairs, and in semiconductors they are an absolute powerhouse. Also interesting: Almost all powerful industrial countries came through a major war with their infrastructure in tatters, Germany, Japan and South Korea all had their industrial capability decimated by wars, only to bounce back stronger than before, presumably because they (forcibly) shed their old production gear and could start afresh using the most modern technology available. China never really had that advantage which is one of the reasons it is taking them as long as it does to get to parity on the quality front. Outside of Foxconn the work being done in China is still surprisingly manual, though in time obviously they too will automate.
  - jklinger410 9y ago
    Ok but I am talking about current, not historical, IP theft.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      In the present things are fine, but IP theft is how a nation that is not yet at parity with the rest of the world will try to save a couple of years and there is much historical precedent for that. China is already changing its position on IP and by the time they've reached parity and will do as much R&D as the rest of the world they will be IP rights champions too. Big indicators are the number of patents filed by a country and the royalties derived from those patents as well as the production of media and such for global consumption.
  - paganel 9y ago
    > where before the Japanese brands were perceived as cheap knock-offs to where the Japanese brands were perceived as superior quality wise. There is a famous Bollywood song from 1955 where the lead actor, the even more famous Raj Kapoor , plays a beggar-like character who sings about "Japanese shoes", which at the time were seen as "cheap knock-offs" only worn by poor people. Here's the song on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQwPwmsUC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQwPwmsUC0
sho 9y ago
See also the USA, back in the day!