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In general, I agree strongly with this sentiment: > What does a healthy, moderate digital life look like? I think that manufacturers and app developers need to

by dayjah 9y ago

In general, I agree strongly with this sentiment: > What does a healthy, moderate digital life look like? I think that manufacturers and app developers need to take on this responsibility, before government regulators decide to step in As a bicyclist and driver I believe one of the best ways to enact this would be add a feature that allows investigators / insurers to answer the question of “whether the device was I use at the time of an accident”. I’ve taken to yelling “get of your effing phone” at drivers obviously looking down at devices while I’m driving, walking or cycling around; I think the phone doing that would be more efficient.

TheSoftwareGuy 9y ago
I really can’t see a way of implementing this without either invading peoples privacy, violating the 5th amendment, making it useless or a combination of those things.
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  I think it could be done without causing those problems. The device itself can store its usage time/location information. Retrieving the information can require a warrant (just like getting anything else off the device ought to). As a black box type device, in this case, the logs should be undeletable by the user. Perhaps a rolling log that wipes itself every week or month (minimal data impact, maximal utility to authorities in cases of accidents and such). By keeping it on the device the privacy concern is partly dealt with. The information is still collected, but no 3rd party has access to it until the user (voluntarily or by court order) provides access to it.
francisofascii 9y ago
I agree. Additionally, the rule against using a phone while driving should actually be enforced. It is very much like speeding. Enforcement is practically non-existent so of course everyone continue to do it.
- dayjah 9y ago
  Agree, outdoor magazine has a detailed piece about this [0], somewhat ironically the author, a friend of mine, was killed recently by a vehicle (an accident; the truck hydroplaned into him while he was fixing a flat) [1]. [0] https://www.outsideonline.com/1930211/bikes-vs-cars-deadly-war-nobodys-winning https://www.outsideonline.com/1930211/bikes-vs-cars-deadly-w... [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/2282551/author-and-cyclist-andrew-tilin-dies-in-collision https://www.outsideonline.com/2282551/author-and-cyclist-and...
cortesoft 9y ago
I can see how this would be good at punishing people, but I am not sure how much this would actually change behavior. I think most people who use a cellphone like that think they are being safe, and by the time this 'feature' comes into play they have already had an accident. It might stop repeat offenders, but I am not sure how many people are getting into multiple accidents caused by cellphones.
cuddlybacon 9y ago
> I’ve taken to yelling “get of your effing phone” at drivers obviously looking down at devices while I’m driving, walking or cycling around; I think the phone doing that would be more efficient. My iPhone does do that. If it thinks I'm driving, it makes me tap a button that says "I'm not driving." in order to continue.
- dayjah 9y ago
  This can be turned off in settings; I’d be interested in knowing how many of us have done that (I have mine on).
  - Retric 9y ago
    A fairly large number of people don't drive but have cellphones (Kids, NYC etc). So, I don't think numbers of people who turn it off is going to tell you much.
  - ghostly_s 9y ago
    I turned it off because it kept disabling me when I was on the train (I drive about once quarterly). It's a good start, though.
    - axxl 9y ago
      You can have it only turn on when you connect to a car bluetooth device instead of using motion detection. It also applies if you have one of those bluetooth to auxiliary adapters if you have an older car.
mulmen 9y ago
Apple’s existing solution of making the device hard to use while driving seems to be better because it actually prevents the accident in the first place and doesn’t introduce a back door.
dmm 9y ago
Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I3iNr1myG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I3iNr1myG4 A driver on her phone strikes a cyclist stopped for a light because the driver cuts the corner and enters the wrong lane. The cyclist is wearing high-viz clothing and uses a very loud horn to alert they driver but the driver just wasn't paying looking.

by dayjah 9y ago

TheSoftwareGuy 9y ago

I really can’t see a way of implementing this without either invading peoples privacy, violating the 5th amendment, making it useless or a combination of those things.

Jtsummers 9y ago
I think it could be done without causing those problems. The device itself can store its usage time/location information. Retrieving the information can require a warrant (just like getting anything else off the device ought to). As a black box type device, in this case, the logs should be undeletable by the user. Perhaps a rolling log that wipes itself every week or month (minimal data impact, maximal utility to authorities in cases of accidents and such). By keeping it on the device the privacy concern is partly dealt with. The information is still collected, but no 3rd party has access to it until the user (voluntarily or by court order) provides access to it.

francisofascii 9y ago

I agree. Additionally, the rule against using a phone while driving should actually be enforced. It is very much like speeding. Enforcement is practically non-existent so of course everyone continue to do it.

dayjah 9y ago
Agree, outdoor magazine has a detailed piece about this [0], somewhat ironically the author, a friend of mine, was killed recently by a vehicle (an accident; the truck hydroplaned into him while he was fixing a flat) [1]. [0] https://www.outsideonline.com/1930211/bikes-vs-cars-deadly-war-nobodys-winning https://www.outsideonline.com/1930211/bikes-vs-cars-deadly-w... [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/2282551/author-and-cyclist-andrew-tilin-dies-in-collision https://www.outsideonline.com/2282551/author-and-cyclist-and...

cortesoft 9y ago

I can see how this would be good at punishing people, but I am not sure how much this would actually change behavior. I think most people who use a cellphone like that think they are being safe, and by the time this 'feature' comes into play they have already had an accident. It might stop repeat offenders, but I am not sure how many people are getting into multiple accidents caused by cellphones.

cuddlybacon 9y ago

> I’ve taken to yelling “get of your effing phone” at drivers obviously looking down at devices while I’m driving, walking or cycling around; I think the phone doing that would be more efficient. My iPhone does do that. If it thinks I'm driving, it makes me tap a button that says "I'm not driving." in order to continue.

dayjah 9y ago
This can be turned off in settings; I’d be interested in knowing how many of us have done that (I have mine on).
- Retric 9y ago
  A fairly large number of people don't drive but have cellphones (Kids, NYC etc). So, I don't think numbers of people who turn it off is going to tell you much.
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  I turned it off because it kept disabling me when I was on the train (I drive about once quarterly). It's a good start, though.
  - axxl 9y ago
    You can have it only turn on when you connect to a car bluetooth device instead of using motion detection. It also applies if you have one of those bluetooth to auxiliary adapters if you have an older car.

mulmen 9y ago

Apple’s existing solution of making the device hard to use while driving seems to be better because it actually prevents the accident in the first place and doesn’t introduce a back door.

dmm 9y ago

Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I3iNr1myG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I3iNr1myG4 A driver on her phone strikes a cyclist stopped for a light because the driver cuts the corner and enters the wrong lane. The cyclist is wearing high-viz clothing and uses a very loud horn to alert they driver but the driver just wasn't paying looking.