5 ms·

Doesn't ketamine stimulate growth in the same areas of the brain that exercise does, and does therapy prescribe routine daily exercise? I can imagine there bei

Doesn't ketamine stimulate growth in the same areas of the brain that exercise does, and does therapy prescribe routine daily exercise? I can imagine there being a great short term benefit to ketamine, as people who are severely depressed can't exercise due to the depression. Has there been any mention switching from ketamine to daily exercise, or doing both?

pjc50 9y ago
I know exercise is good for depression, but this is an extremely patronising response to someone else's description of their medical treatment.
- boomlinde 9y ago
  How is it patronising? GP is asking two questions. Maybe there's some subtle subtext that I'm missing, but even then it seems better to assume the more favorable interpretation that he's just asking questions.
- OldSchoolJohnny 9y ago
  Well that'll teach that poor bastard to ask a question here, good job!
  - salvar 9y ago
    Is it possible to ask a question in a patronising way?
    - Domenic_S 9y ago
      I don't know, is it?
      - salvar 9y ago
        I would say yes.
- proverbialbunny 9y ago
  Sorry. That wasn't the intent. I could have been clearer. More, I don't know what ketamine does in the long term to the brain beyond stimulating the parts of the brain that get strengthened during exercise. Maybe it's doing something else and that was the motive for the curiosity. What exactly is ketamine doing in the long run to the brain?
andrewingram 9y ago
Anecdote alert, but I get about 10 hours of exercise a week and at best it's stopping things getting worse.
sgift 9y ago
How often did you have depression? Especially major depressive episodes where you have trouble to even motivate yourself to move out of the bed or do ANYTHING but just "exist" and even that seems hard? If the answer is zero (which I think it is) do those who have it a favor and shut up. Depression is hard enough without "you just have to exercise, huahua" comments.
- sho 9y ago
  While you are totally right, you could have phrased that a lot better, and don't tell people to shut up.
- ada1981 9y ago
  I over came decades of suicidal depression (as well as schizophrenia and bipolar) with a self concocted protocol which included psychedelics and now don't take traditional meds. I read the OPs intention as "use K to get the person back from the bottom of depression and then leverage that boost in mood to start a habit of excersize" That seems reasonable and a good approach. You want to reinvest the motivation and better mood into relationships and behaviors that will continue to compound feeling good. I'd also recommend Gratitude as a practice and ultimately some sort of somatic work where you are encouraged to go deeply into any uncomfortable feelings with your full body.
  - nylonstrung 9y ago
    Can you explain your protocol? That's pretty promising. I've had some good results to date but not sure how to use them in a more disciplined way to create permanent results
    - ada1981 9y ago
      I'd be happy to Skype with you for 20 minutes sometime. You can email me a@175g.com
- aantix 9y ago
  >do those who have it a favor and shut up Nothing is more irksome than the trend in public discussions to tell others to "shut up" if they haven't specifically experienced something. This is a public forum. We're discussing a publicly posted article. The OP brought to the table a valid point. Let them talk.
DanBC 9y ago
The difference is that ketamine shows positive results in clinical trials (even for severe depression) while exercise doesn't, unless you include poor quality trials and you limit results to mild depression.
- DenisM 9y ago
  Whoa. Do you have a link to a meta-study or something like that?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    For exercise? I've posted this before. There's a newer study that has better results. http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre... ---begin Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%. The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive. ---end
- atomical 9y ago
  The results are limited for Ketamine too. http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other-glutamate-receptor-modulators-depression-adults http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other...

pjc50 9y ago

I know exercise is good for depression, but this is an extremely patronising response to someone else's description of their medical treatment.

boomlinde 9y ago
How is it patronising? GP is asking two questions. Maybe there's some subtle subtext that I'm missing, but even then it seems better to assume the more favorable interpretation that he's just asking questions.
OldSchoolJohnny 9y ago
Well that'll teach that poor bastard to ask a question here, good job!
- salvar 9y ago
  Is it possible to ask a question in a patronising way?
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    I don't know, is it?
    - salvar 9y ago
      I would say yes.
proverbialbunny 9y ago
Sorry. That wasn't the intent. I could have been clearer. More, I don't know what ketamine does in the long term to the brain beyond stimulating the parts of the brain that get strengthened during exercise. Maybe it's doing something else and that was the motive for the curiosity. What exactly is ketamine doing in the long run to the brain?

andrewingram 9y ago

Anecdote alert, but I get about 10 hours of exercise a week and at best it's stopping things getting worse.

sgift 9y ago

How often did you have depression? Especially major depressive episodes where you have trouble to even motivate yourself to move out of the bed or do ANYTHING but just "exist" and even that seems hard? If the answer is zero (which I think it is) do those who have it a favor and shut up. Depression is hard enough without "you just have to exercise, huahua" comments.

sho 9y ago
While you are totally right, you could have phrased that a lot better, and don't tell people to shut up.
ada1981 9y ago
I over came decades of suicidal depression (as well as schizophrenia and bipolar) with a self concocted protocol which included psychedelics and now don't take traditional meds. I read the OPs intention as "use K to get the person back from the bottom of depression and then leverage that boost in mood to start a habit of excersize" That seems reasonable and a good approach. You want to reinvest the motivation and better mood into relationships and behaviors that will continue to compound feeling good. I'd also recommend Gratitude as a practice and ultimately some sort of somatic work where you are encouraged to go deeply into any uncomfortable feelings with your full body.
- nylonstrung 9y ago
  Can you explain your protocol? That's pretty promising. I've had some good results to date but not sure how to use them in a more disciplined way to create permanent results
  - ada1981 9y ago
    I'd be happy to Skype with you for 20 minutes sometime. You can email me a@175g.com
aantix 9y ago
>do those who have it a favor and shut up Nothing is more irksome than the trend in public discussions to tell others to "shut up" if they haven't specifically experienced something. This is a public forum. We're discussing a publicly posted article. The OP brought to the table a valid point. Let them talk.

DanBC 9y ago

The difference is that ketamine shows positive results in clinical trials (even for severe depression) while exercise doesn't, unless you include poor quality trials and you limit results to mild depression.

DenisM 9y ago
Whoa. Do you have a link to a meta-study or something like that?
- DanBC 9y ago
  For exercise? I've posted this before. There's a newer study that has better results. http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre... ---begin Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%. The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive. ---end
atomical 9y ago
The results are limited for Ketamine too. http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other-glutamate-receptor-modulators-depression-adults http://www.cochrane.org/CD011612/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other...