6 ms·

@HN's chemists - I was under the impression regular ketamine use caused irreversible bladder damage[0] - Is that due to much higher recreational dosage vs medic

• pw 8y ago
  Not a chemist but according to the providers I’ve talked to the recreational dose is an order of magnitude larger than that given for depression. My understanding is the dose for depression is relatively small (even compared to what’s used during, say, anaesthesia).
  • sneak 8y ago
    Not an order of magnitude. Maybe 1.5-2x. Antidepressant doses are not far off of recreational for most recreational users. The recreational doses are also relatively small (10-50%) compared to anesthetic doses, too. Being unconscious isn’t the recreational user’s aim.
    • psyc 8y ago
      I've had K for anesthesia at the oral surgeon's, and it did not make me unconscious. It put me in a K hole. I was conscious the way you're conscious in a narrative dream. I have pretty clear memories of the experience (trip) - just no memory of my teeth being extracted.
• mathieuh 8y ago
  I'm not a chemist either but as someone who as partaken and knows other people who have also partaken, the dosages you have to take in order for this to become an issue are way beyond what would seem reasonable for someone who's not heavily dependent and tolerant. You would have to be taking grams and grams of the stuff on the regular; infrequent or one-off dosages won't cause bladder damage. Edit: even in the article you can see that the guy developed "K bladder" after taking 15g per day. 15g is a truly scary amount of powder to be ingesting.
  • swarnie_ 8y ago
    15g a day is a truly insane amount, i'm shocked the person mentioned didn't die... I've known 1/2 a gram leave people catatonic for hours.
    • sh4z 8y ago
      If you use Ketamine regularly you build up a long lasting resistance pretty fast. I've met someone who was doing 5-10 grams a day and it barley had any noticeable effect on him
    • nylonstrung 8y ago
      Insufflating 15G of anything is physical a feat in and of itself
  • sneak 8y ago
    My guess is that 0.5-1g/day, if ingested every day, is sufficient to cause bladder damage. However, for use as an antidepressant, 100-200mg (0.1-0.2g) twice a month is sufficient, so it shouldn’t be an issue.
    • OnMyPhone 8y ago
      "However, for use as an antidepressant, 100-200mg (0.1-0.2g) twice a month is sufficient, so it shouldn’t be an issue. " I will second that. A friend would use around that much and it would last almost 2 full weeks without feeling the need to take another 100mg. Once the 2 weeks hit though, he could feel his depression / anxiety coming back slowly.
• rando444 8y ago
  it's not prescribed long term
• toomanybeersies 8y ago
  From my research on the subject, ketamine bladder only happens if to chronic, long term users using several grams a week. Most of the studies of using ketamine to treat depression are using under 1 gram per month. Infrequent use of ketamine (less than once a week, less than 1 g), whether medical or recreational has no negative side effects. It's also unknown whether it's actually caused by ketamine, or by whatever is being used to cut street ket.
• Nursie 8y ago
  Daily, high doses can cause recrystallization in the bladder. It's a problem, but seems to be limited to those exhibiting problem usage (even within the context of recreational use)
• Knufen 8y ago
  Ketamine can do that under the extreme dosages used by recreational users. It's also important to remember that a lot of the bad long term effects of drugs can be attributed to impurities, which there should be next to nothing off when you get it from a doctor. https://www.addiction.com/4311/contaminants-illicit-drugs/ https://www.addiction.com/4311/contaminants-illicit-drugs/
  • sneak 8y ago
    In this specific case the bladder damage is from the ketamine (metabolites) itself, not impurities.
  • eip 8y ago
    > the bad long term effects of drugs can be attributed to impurities, which there should be next to nothing off when you get it from a doctor. Ketamine is sourced pretty much exclusively from pharmaceutical manufacturers and is medical grade.
    • toomanybeersies 8y ago
      It is normally cut with other shit though to bulk it out and get more profit.
      • unfunco 8y ago
        Ketamine has such a distinctive appearance in solid form that cutting it with anything else is quite difficult. Ketamine is relatively clean in the United Kingdom compared with other illicit chemicals.