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Alcohol in the absence of polyunsaturated fats is fairly benign. In the context of fried foods and margarine and vegetable oils it's very damaging. On a very lo

Alcohol in the absence of polyunsaturated fats is fairly benign. In the context of fried foods and margarine and vegetable oils it's very damaging. On a very low fat diet you could probably down a six pack daily with minimal harm.

aldoushuxley001 8y ago
Why does the presence of polyunsaturated fats have such an impact on the consumption of alcohol?
- maoistinquisitr 8y ago
  These garbage studies confuse the impacts of crappy fried food and oils with alcohol itself. Heavy drinkers also eat more PUFA. The PUFA itself is very damaging. The alcohol just magnifies the damage of the PUFA. The alcohol even further increases the absorption of LPS from the intestine, and makes cells more susceptible to the toxins. But absent the PUFA the liver typically has no problem cleaning up. The liver is constantly clearing away such toxins.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Do you have a link to, or publication reference for, a study which shows a correlation between increasing PUFA and increasing all those problems when alcohol consumption is not changed?
tristanj 8y ago
>Alcohol in the absence of polyunsaturated fats is fairly benign. This isn't true. Sorry to inform you but Ethanol is a IARC Group 1 Carcinogen. There is no safe amount of consumption of ethanol. When Ethanol enters the body, it is metabolized into Acetaldehyde, which enters the bloodstream, and later another enzyme metabolizes Acetaldehyde into harmless Aceitc Acid. Acetaldehyde also a Group 1 Carcinogen. Acetaldehyde is a tiny molecule and when in the bloodstream, Acetaldehyde can pass through any cell membrane unregulated, and when it enters the cell nucleus it causes irreparable DNA damage https://www.sciencealert.com/alcohol-damages-dna-stem-cells-cancer-acetaldehyde https://www.sciencealert.com/alcohol-damages-dna-stem-cells-... . When cells accumulate too much damage to their DNA, they either die or (very rarely) start replicating uncontrollably, leading to a situation known as cancer. I reccomend you read how Ethanol is processed by the body here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabolism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabolism . You can see that the process by which the human body metabolizes Ethanol always produces carcinogens, no matter the presence of fried foods, margarine, vegetable oils.
- maoistinquisitr 8y ago
  > There is no safe amount of ethanol. When Ethanol enters the body, it is metabolized into Acetaldehyde Just wait until you look up how beans are metabolized. All food except pure glucose has "problematic" metabolic pathways. Alcohol is not particularly interesting in this regard. It just magnifies the negative impacts of certain other choices. A healthy liver can deal with quite a lot of alcohol and acetaldehyde with not much issue. Sorry, you don't really know what you're talking about. You can dowse rats with booze and they handle it fine absent oils. It really is that simple.
  - tristanj 8y ago
    >A healthy liver can deal with quite a lot of alcohol and acetaldehyde with not much issue. But in evolutionary terms, this is not true at all. Humans today are consuming way more alcohol than the metabolic pathway can handle. Alcoholic spirits are a recent invention, they were first created ~4000 years ago, which is far to little time for a metabolic pathway to adapt. If you read the wikipedia article, it says humans typically consume 3g of ethanol per day, as it is naturally produced in (fermented) food. Fruit, for example, is typically 0.6% ethanol by weight, higher if let ferment. The ability to metabolize ethanol is an important evolutionary adaption, as it allowed our ancestors to eat rotten/fermented food, especially advantageous when there was no other food to eat. However, when modern humans consume 2-3 drinks of alcohol, they are loading their body with 30-50 grams of ethanol, far more than the metabolic pathway can handle. This is a whole week's worth of ethanol, which is now being consumed in one hour. This leads to toxic amounts of ethanol and acetaldehyde accumulating in the bloodstream. Humans were never meant to consume this much alcohol. If you are wondering why humans started consuming alcoholic spirits in the first place, I am quite favorable towards the frugivory by-product hypothesis.
- tejtm 8y ago
  So glad to see this stated so clearly will take one exception which is to: ~Acetaldehyde causes irreparable DNA damage~ This is not 100% we all repair this damage all the time (usually) however not needing to repair excess damage is preferable. Note: ethanol is not the only source of aldehydes in our diet even if it is a potent one, paraphrasing a medical researcher friend "anything that tastes good will metabolize through an aldehyde phase" Our genetics, the dose and blind luck will determine if the damage is repairable. For an example of genetics and ethanol mediated DNA damage/repair see Asian Flushing syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction Yeast produced ethanol as a toxin to inhibit other things from eating what they were eating, it was only ~10M years ago something was hungry enough to eat the poison and lucky enough to have mutated to derive nutrition from the toxin. but hey, oxygen use to be a toxin too.

aldoushuxley001 8y ago

Why does the presence of polyunsaturated fats have such an impact on the consumption of alcohol?

maoistinquisitr 8y ago
These garbage studies confuse the impacts of crappy fried food and oils with alcohol itself. Heavy drinkers also eat more PUFA. The PUFA itself is very damaging. The alcohol just magnifies the damage of the PUFA. The alcohol even further increases the absorption of LPS from the intestine, and makes cells more susceptible to the toxins. But absent the PUFA the liver typically has no problem cleaning up. The liver is constantly clearing away such toxins.
- ben_w 8y ago
  Do you have a link to, or publication reference for, a study which shows a correlation between increasing PUFA and increasing all those problems when alcohol consumption is not changed?

tristanj 8y ago

>Alcohol in the absence of polyunsaturated fats is fairly benign. This isn't true. Sorry to inform you but Ethanol is a IARC Group 1 Carcinogen. There is no safe amount of consumption of ethanol. When Ethanol enters the body, it is metabolized into Acetaldehyde, which enters the bloodstream, and later another enzyme metabolizes Acetaldehyde into harmless Aceitc Acid. Acetaldehyde also a Group 1 Carcinogen. Acetaldehyde is a tiny molecule and when in the bloodstream, Acetaldehyde can pass through any cell membrane unregulated, and when it enters the cell nucleus it causes irreparable DNA damage https://www.sciencealert.com/alcohol-damages-dna-stem-cells-cancer-acetaldehyde https://www.sciencealert.com/alcohol-damages-dna-stem-cells-... . When cells accumulate too much damage to their DNA, they either die or (very rarely) start replicating uncontrollably, leading to a situation known as cancer. I reccomend you read how Ethanol is processed by the body here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabolism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabolism . You can see that the process by which the human body metabolizes Ethanol always produces carcinogens, no matter the presence of fried foods, margarine, vegetable oils.

maoistinquisitr 8y ago
> There is no safe amount of ethanol. When Ethanol enters the body, it is metabolized into Acetaldehyde Just wait until you look up how beans are metabolized. All food except pure glucose has "problematic" metabolic pathways. Alcohol is not particularly interesting in this regard. It just magnifies the negative impacts of certain other choices. A healthy liver can deal with quite a lot of alcohol and acetaldehyde with not much issue. Sorry, you don't really know what you're talking about. You can dowse rats with booze and they handle it fine absent oils. It really is that simple.
- tristanj 8y ago
  >A healthy liver can deal with quite a lot of alcohol and acetaldehyde with not much issue. But in evolutionary terms, this is not true at all. Humans today are consuming way more alcohol than the metabolic pathway can handle. Alcoholic spirits are a recent invention, they were first created ~4000 years ago, which is far to little time for a metabolic pathway to adapt. If you read the wikipedia article, it says humans typically consume 3g of ethanol per day, as it is naturally produced in (fermented) food. Fruit, for example, is typically 0.6% ethanol by weight, higher if let ferment. The ability to metabolize ethanol is an important evolutionary adaption, as it allowed our ancestors to eat rotten/fermented food, especially advantageous when there was no other food to eat. However, when modern humans consume 2-3 drinks of alcohol, they are loading their body with 30-50 grams of ethanol, far more than the metabolic pathway can handle. This is a whole week's worth of ethanol, which is now being consumed in one hour. This leads to toxic amounts of ethanol and acetaldehyde accumulating in the bloodstream. Humans were never meant to consume this much alcohol. If you are wondering why humans started consuming alcoholic spirits in the first place, I am quite favorable towards the frugivory by-product hypothesis.
tejtm 8y ago
So glad to see this stated so clearly will take one exception which is to: ~Acetaldehyde causes irreparable DNA damage~ This is not 100% we all repair this damage all the time (usually) however not needing to repair excess damage is preferable. Note: ethanol is not the only source of aldehydes in our diet even if it is a potent one, paraphrasing a medical researcher friend "anything that tastes good will metabolize through an aldehyde phase" Our genetics, the dose and blind luck will determine if the damage is repairable. For an example of genetics and ethanol mediated DNA damage/repair see Asian Flushing syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction Yeast produced ethanol as a toxin to inhibit other things from eating what they were eating, it was only ~10M years ago something was hungry enough to eat the poison and lucky enough to have mutated to derive nutrition from the toxin. but hey, oxygen use to be a toxin too.