8 ms·

I have lived in the Bay Area for 6+ years. Could have bought a house, but the prices seemed crazy in 2014 and look a lot more crazier now. And the prices keep o

I have lived in the Bay Area for 6+ years. Could have bought a house, but the prices seemed crazy in 2014 and look a lot more crazier now. And the prices keep on creeping up higher! All my friends have bought houses. Some of them have bought houses worth 2.4M in Cupertino. Most of them are Indians on H1B visa and not Green Card in sight! Are Bay Area prices sustainable? Am I being unnecessarily paranoid?

stevenwoo 8y ago
I own and am not sure. Could have bought in San Francisco in 2001 and decided to buy on the peninsula instead. Cupertino still had starter homes < 500,000 at that time but I didn't want to live there, either. For a while there it looked like a mistake to not live in the city then the market turned insane and the peninsula housing market is almost as hot as the city. Part of me wants to take the profit and run but to where?
- JKCalhoun 8y ago
  Nearly anywhere.
  - DubiousPusher 8y ago
    Unfortunately no. Not all of us are thrilled about a life of remote work. I for one work best side by side with a team of people. That environment is only easily attained in the exact places that have ridiculous real estate markets. I've looked many times at different markets and for me moving doesn't make sense. So near Seattle I stay.
    - automoton1 8y ago
      "That environment is only easily attained in the exact places that have ridiculous real estate markets." There are places in middle America with open positions for many people that have relatively inexpensive living costs in comparison to places like SV, Seattle, New York, and so on.
      - stevenwoo 8y ago
        I did a cursory search on craigslist and last months hiring post and most of what I could find had very specific prerequisite experience, some had low 3-5 maximum years experience, and the selection of jobs was pretty low barring the West/East Coast, Austin would be in the running but I moved from there. You mentioned New York as too similar, but there are a lot of interesting companies there.
    - moorhosj 8y ago
      Chicago, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Nashville, Columbus all fit your criteria and have “cheap” housing. It’s a big country.
      - almost_usual 8y ago
        As someone who grew up in nowhere Illinois it’s funny when I hear Chicago has “cheap” housing.
      - logfromblammo 8y ago
        I would not recommend moving to Chicago proper until Illinois gets their major fiscal problems worked out. If you absolutely can't avoid it, living in Gary, Indiana, or Kenosha, Wisconsin, will do until then. Take the Metra if you need to get into the city. Indianapolis has some of the cheapest housing in the US, but it also has very low salaries for software professionals. I have a lot of family there, and I just can't move back. Sure, it's nice to own your entire house for only $150k, but the pay cut means you'll spend longer paying it off than you thought.
        moorhosj 8y ago
        ==I would not recommend moving to Chicago proper until Illinois gets their major fiscal problems worked out.== Recommending people move to Gary or Kenosha simply to avoid living in Chicago is pretty silly and a vast over-reaction. Markets have priced in the fiscal issues and Chicago is still cheaper than comparable cities for tech professionals. Even with increased taxes, Chicago will remain cheaper than New York, Seattle, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston and DC. Pretty much every city/state in the US has a pension crisis and will require tax increases. Would you recommend people avoid these places?: - Houston - https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/article/The-heart-of-Houston-s-pension-problem-is-debt-11110657.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/artic... - Dallas - https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2017/11/13/pension-reform-force-dozens-dallas-cops-firefighters-retire-january https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2017/11/13/... - All of California - http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article199693069.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article199693069.ht... - Seattle - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/22/what-seattle-income-tax-fight-says-about-our-countrys-pension-mess.html http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/22/what-seattle-incom...
    - dbatten 8y ago
      Surely, you're not serious about this? I work (in an office, not remote, mind you) at a tech company in the Research Triangle area of North Carolina. Most of the people I know also work in tech companies. In fact, outside of state government and the school systems, the major employers around here are all tech companies and research universities. You can easily have an entire career in tech, working in-person, in good jobs doing cool stuff. And the cost of living around here is a tiny fraction of what you'd pay in the SF/NY/LA/Seattle. If you want to live in [big overpriced city] because you like said big overpriced city, feel free to do so. But HN really needs to get over this ridiculous idea that big, overpriced cities are the only place to have a tech career.
      - wenttomarket 8y ago
        I am a Bay Area resident interested in the Raleigh tech scene. Any interest in connecting? Can be reached at 650 338 2164
      - noahl 8y ago
        I just moved from Seattle to Raleigh, and I'm still trying to learn the local tech scene. Can you share any info publicly on companies doing cool stuff around here?
      - DubiousPusher 8y ago
        You're right. I don't actually know enough about the distribution of tech careers to hold a strong opinion. I'm largely operating off my own experience, which is this. When I look for jobs in less populous, more affordable areas I tend to run into the same thing. There are mostly regional/local companies looking for very specific types of engineers and more generalized engineering opportunities are almost always looking for 10-15 years more experience than I have. As someone who is still a junior engineer of the generalist variety I've been unable to find much. I'll admit, I haven't looked on the east coast though, as that's very far from my family.
- mquander 8y ago
  The same place, but as a renter? That's what I'd do if I were up ~1M on a house.
  - refurb 8y ago
    The Toronto market has recently rolled over and prices are falling. I knew a few people who were able to sell at the peak of the market. I also know one person who tried to sell, the downturn happened and the buyer pulled out. Some folks were able to walk away with $1M cash and just rented after. The rent to home price ratio is crazy in Toronto and they were able to rent a home for $3000 that would cost $6000 in mortgage payments.
- justherefortart 8y ago
  Midwest? Buy 10-15 rent houses in a college town and retire. My neighbor owns 15 houses and lives in Europe most the year. I'm working on the same path (may buy their homes in the next year or two, we're in discussions).
  - stevenwoo 8y ago
    Does this plan mean living in the town and doing the property management or is it more self sustaining remote?
    - justherefortart 8y ago
      You can do it either way. The risk threshold from my perspective is how much you charge in rent, with how large your deposit is, along with how often you inspect your properties. Also, you have to be prepared to sue, file liens, and use sheriff evictions. Everything is easier if you're local. If your investment is large enough, flying in to deal with your properties is a reasonable business expense (I wouldn't do it outside setting up a company and having general liability in addition to your normal house insurance).
madengr 8y ago
They can always skip the country if prices collapse. No skin the the game.
justherefortart 8y ago
My buddy bought his house in the city in 2011. I was going to do the same but a 3400/mo mortgage seemed fucking nuts. His house has more than doubled in equity though, so not too bad from his perspective. I moved back to the midwest where shit is reasonable, now I just blow that 3400/mo on fun stuff instead of mortgage/rent.

stevenwoo 8y ago

I own and am not sure. Could have bought in San Francisco in 2001 and decided to buy on the peninsula instead. Cupertino still had starter homes < 500,000 at that time but I didn't want to live there, either. For a while there it looked like a mistake to not live in the city then the market turned insane and the peninsula housing market is almost as hot as the city. Part of me wants to take the profit and run but to where?

JKCalhoun 8y ago
Nearly anywhere.
- DubiousPusher 8y ago
  Unfortunately no. Not all of us are thrilled about a life of remote work. I for one work best side by side with a team of people. That environment is only easily attained in the exact places that have ridiculous real estate markets. I've looked many times at different markets and for me moving doesn't make sense. So near Seattle I stay.
  - automoton1 8y ago
    "That environment is only easily attained in the exact places that have ridiculous real estate markets." There are places in middle America with open positions for many people that have relatively inexpensive living costs in comparison to places like SV, Seattle, New York, and so on.
    - stevenwoo 8y ago
      I did a cursory search on craigslist and last months hiring post and most of what I could find had very specific prerequisite experience, some had low 3-5 maximum years experience, and the selection of jobs was pretty low barring the West/East Coast, Austin would be in the running but I moved from there. You mentioned New York as too similar, but there are a lot of interesting companies there.
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    Chicago, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Nashville, Columbus all fit your criteria and have “cheap” housing. It’s a big country.
    - almost_usual 8y ago
      As someone who grew up in nowhere Illinois it’s funny when I hear Chicago has “cheap” housing.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      I would not recommend moving to Chicago proper until Illinois gets their major fiscal problems worked out. If you absolutely can't avoid it, living in Gary, Indiana, or Kenosha, Wisconsin, will do until then. Take the Metra if you need to get into the city. Indianapolis has some of the cheapest housing in the US, but it also has very low salaries for software professionals. I have a lot of family there, and I just can't move back. Sure, it's nice to own your entire house for only $150k, but the pay cut means you'll spend longer paying it off than you thought.
      - moorhosj 8y ago
        ==I would not recommend moving to Chicago proper until Illinois gets their major fiscal problems worked out.== Recommending people move to Gary or Kenosha simply to avoid living in Chicago is pretty silly and a vast over-reaction. Markets have priced in the fiscal issues and Chicago is still cheaper than comparable cities for tech professionals. Even with increased taxes, Chicago will remain cheaper than New York, Seattle, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston and DC. Pretty much every city/state in the US has a pension crisis and will require tax increases. Would you recommend people avoid these places?: - Houston - https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/article/The-heart-of-Houston-s-pension-problem-is-debt-11110657.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/artic... - Dallas - https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2017/11/13/pension-reform-force-dozens-dallas-cops-firefighters-retire-january https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2017/11/13/... - All of California - http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article199693069.html http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article199693069.ht... - Seattle - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/22/what-seattle-income-tax-fight-says-about-our-countrys-pension-mess.html http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/22/what-seattle-incom...
  - dbatten 8y ago
    Surely, you're not serious about this? I work (in an office, not remote, mind you) at a tech company in the Research Triangle area of North Carolina. Most of the people I know also work in tech companies. In fact, outside of state government and the school systems, the major employers around here are all tech companies and research universities. You can easily have an entire career in tech, working in-person, in good jobs doing cool stuff. And the cost of living around here is a tiny fraction of what you'd pay in the SF/NY/LA/Seattle. If you want to live in [big overpriced city] because you like said big overpriced city, feel free to do so. But HN really needs to get over this ridiculous idea that big, overpriced cities are the only place to have a tech career.
    - wenttomarket 8y ago
      I am a Bay Area resident interested in the Raleigh tech scene. Any interest in connecting? Can be reached at 650 338 2164
    - noahl 8y ago
      I just moved from Seattle to Raleigh, and I'm still trying to learn the local tech scene. Can you share any info publicly on companies doing cool stuff around here?
    - DubiousPusher 8y ago
      You're right. I don't actually know enough about the distribution of tech careers to hold a strong opinion. I'm largely operating off my own experience, which is this. When I look for jobs in less populous, more affordable areas I tend to run into the same thing. There are mostly regional/local companies looking for very specific types of engineers and more generalized engineering opportunities are almost always looking for 10-15 years more experience than I have. As someone who is still a junior engineer of the generalist variety I've been unable to find much. I'll admit, I haven't looked on the east coast though, as that's very far from my family.
mquander 8y ago
The same place, but as a renter? That's what I'd do if I were up ~1M on a house.
- refurb 8y ago
  The Toronto market has recently rolled over and prices are falling. I knew a few people who were able to sell at the peak of the market. I also know one person who tried to sell, the downturn happened and the buyer pulled out. Some folks were able to walk away with $1M cash and just rented after. The rent to home price ratio is crazy in Toronto and they were able to rent a home for $3000 that would cost $6000 in mortgage payments.
justherefortart 8y ago
Midwest? Buy 10-15 rent houses in a college town and retire. My neighbor owns 15 houses and lives in Europe most the year. I'm working on the same path (may buy their homes in the next year or two, we're in discussions).
- stevenwoo 8y ago
  Does this plan mean living in the town and doing the property management or is it more self sustaining remote?
  - justherefortart 8y ago
    You can do it either way. The risk threshold from my perspective is how much you charge in rent, with how large your deposit is, along with how often you inspect your properties. Also, you have to be prepared to sue, file liens, and use sheriff evictions. Everything is easier if you're local. If your investment is large enough, flying in to deal with your properties is a reasonable business expense (I wouldn't do it outside setting up a company and having general liability in addition to your normal house insurance).

madengr 8y ago

They can always skip the country if prices collapse. No skin the the game.

justherefortart 8y ago

My buddy bought his house in the city in 2011. I was going to do the same but a 3400/mo mortgage seemed fucking nuts. His house has more than doubled in equity though, so not too bad from his perspective. I moved back to the midwest where shit is reasonable, now I just blow that 3400/mo on fun stuff instead of mortgage/rent.