4 ms·

I don't think paid-for services are going to solve anything. We pay up and out the ass for television, which obviously has ads, but I'm sure they're tracking as

by kgwxd 9y ago

I don't think paid-for services are going to solve anything. We pay up and out the ass for television, which obviously has ads, but I'm sure they're tracking as much as possible too. Unless you've been extremely diligent, there's no way you're going to escape a targeted invasion of privacy when someone, or some group, government or not, wants it bad enough. Trying to stop that would be exhausting and futile. Right now, we're allowing highly coordinated, highly detailed, nearly invisible, for-profit, stalking to take place legally. There's no doubt that's bad for society. We have anti-stalking laws for good reason. It's worth doing something about the current state of things, even if it doesn't bring the tracking down to nothing. The free market and tech has failed to fix it so far. They don't have forever to keep trying. Laws are the next line of defense. Laws might not stop criminals from crimin' but I'm sure the Tim Cooks of the world aren't going to risk their company profits (or personal freedoms, if the laws are strict enough) to get a little extra info on everyone.

luckydude 9y ago
Couldn't agree more though I got downvoted for saying more or less the same thing earlier today (still don't understand that but, um, internet).
- luckydude 9y ago
  And again. WTF? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebook-tracking-of-non-users-sparks-broader-privacy-concerns_us_5ad34f10e4b016a07e9d5871 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebook-tracking-of-no... http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/antonio-garcia-martinez-former-facebook-employee-interview.html http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/antonio-garcia-martinez-f... Can someone explain to me why I'm getting down voted? Seems bogus. Whatever, it's internet points, if people want to take my points, take 'em, they are worth what I paid for them. I'm slowly getting to the point that hackernews is like facebook, the trolls win. If that's the case I'm out. There are lots of better uses of my time, I'm trying to help get a company started, my younger kid wants to build a gokart, I need this crap like a hole in the head. By the way, HN, shit like this is why important people don't hang out here. I'm not a big deal, I get that, but I'm not nobody. When you wonder why the real movers and shakers aren't here, this is why. Trolls. Why the heck would anyone doing stuff submit themselves to this crap? Why should they? I get it, there are bad players that down vote for bad reasons. You need to get that because of that, I think it's gonna be a rare event where you get AVB or WNJ or David Patterson or John Hennessy or anyone really doing stuff to come participate here. There is no upside, well, there are internet points and those have changed my life (jk), there is no upside and stupid people can piss all over you. I'm not as good as those guys I mentioned, though Granite Systems was a result of AVB finding me in a bar in SF and asking me to spell out what I'd want in a switch, but he did it, execution is everything, ideas are nothing. But I'm here and willing to share what I know and people shit on me? I started and ran a profitable company for 18 years in the valley and people shit on me? I've got lots to share, I'm retired and all I want to do is help people and still people are mad at me. Time to exit stage left. Enjoy not learning from me.
  - klez 9y ago
    I suggest you should chill a bit. I didn't see your previous post, but I guess this one has been downvoted because it's not saying anything of consequence regarding the OP and it's not adding anything to the conversation.
    - luckydude 9y ago
      I'm sort of sick of this environment. HN used to be cool, for me, not so much lately. If you are having a good time, go you, I really wish HN the best, it's one of the better places on the internet, but I'm very close to just being done. And I'm not looking for people to convince me that it is fine, it's a personal thing, the value/cost ratio just is shitty for me and that's probably my history. I'm just tired of the trolls, I could go hug my dogs or deal with the trolls, which one do you think I love?
      - 1091283w12 9y ago
        Yeah, HN was for discussion a long time ago. Now it is 80% marketing people and losers pushing their narratives. Since any harsh responses are censored, the problem is getting worse. pg has also left a long time ago.
- fyi1183 9y ago
  I'm not going to dig up your earlier post, but discussing up- and down votes like you're doing here is an anti pattern on HN. I think that if you look objectively at your comment, you'll find that it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and has the potential to distract from it. Most likely that's why you've been down voted here.
realpeopleio 9y ago
What if there were paid services that promised no ads? Ever? Make it part of their policy?
- HelloNurse 9y ago
  Naive: instead of serving ads directly, the service would just eagerly sell your data to someone else for possibly worse purposes than ads (e.g. denying you health insurance, mortgages, a job, etc.)
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Why? Why wouldn't the income from subscriptions be enough?
    - vageli 9y ago
      There is no such thing as "enough" when corporations seek perpetual growth.
- spacehome 9y ago
  Originally, this was the promise of cable television. Eventually they figured out they could charge you and deliver ads.
- thebaer 9y ago
  Exactly. I'm doing this with the company I've been building [0] and it works. While it's taken a while being completely bootstrapped, we make enough money to grow and focus on our users. No one is obligated to track and stalk everyone online; that's just the prevailing business model (unfortunately). [0] https://write.as/principles https://write.as/principles
  - yborg 9y ago
    Yes, and when you cash out to enjoy life in the tropics, whoever you sell to will then use any and all information you may have as they see fit, and load up your service with the usual. I won't even blame you for it, this is just how things work. I believe the sincerity of your statement of principles, just as I believe that Sergei and Larry were sincere when they told Google "Don't Be Evil". Everything ultimately has a price, even your principles, and even if it is very high, there is someone out there that will meet it if they can make a profit on it. The guys like Richard Stallman that are religiously committed to their beliefs is vanishingly small, and the odds that a founder such as yourself is one of those people is correspondingly low. That doesn't mean I wouldn't use your service (which looks cool). It just means that I would have a plan in place for what I'll do when you sell out ;)

by kgwxd 9y ago

luckydude 9y ago

Couldn't agree more though I got downvoted for saying more or less the same thing earlier today (still don't understand that but, um, internet).

luckydude 9y ago
And again. WTF? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebook-tracking-of-non-users-sparks-broader-privacy-concerns_us_5ad34f10e4b016a07e9d5871 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebook-tracking-of-no... http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/antonio-garcia-martinez-former-facebook-employee-interview.html http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/antonio-garcia-martinez-f... Can someone explain to me why I'm getting down voted? Seems bogus. Whatever, it's internet points, if people want to take my points, take 'em, they are worth what I paid for them. I'm slowly getting to the point that hackernews is like facebook, the trolls win. If that's the case I'm out. There are lots of better uses of my time, I'm trying to help get a company started, my younger kid wants to build a gokart, I need this crap like a hole in the head. By the way, HN, shit like this is why important people don't hang out here. I'm not a big deal, I get that, but I'm not nobody. When you wonder why the real movers and shakers aren't here, this is why. Trolls. Why the heck would anyone doing stuff submit themselves to this crap? Why should they? I get it, there are bad players that down vote for bad reasons. You need to get that because of that, I think it's gonna be a rare event where you get AVB or WNJ or David Patterson or John Hennessy or anyone really doing stuff to come participate here. There is no upside, well, there are internet points and those have changed my life (jk), there is no upside and stupid people can piss all over you. I'm not as good as those guys I mentioned, though Granite Systems was a result of AVB finding me in a bar in SF and asking me to spell out what I'd want in a switch, but he did it, execution is everything, ideas are nothing. But I'm here and willing to share what I know and people shit on me? I started and ran a profitable company for 18 years in the valley and people shit on me? I've got lots to share, I'm retired and all I want to do is help people and still people are mad at me. Time to exit stage left. Enjoy not learning from me.
- klez 9y ago
  I suggest you should chill a bit. I didn't see your previous post, but I guess this one has been downvoted because it's not saying anything of consequence regarding the OP and it's not adding anything to the conversation.
  - luckydude 9y ago
    I'm sort of sick of this environment. HN used to be cool, for me, not so much lately. If you are having a good time, go you, I really wish HN the best, it's one of the better places on the internet, but I'm very close to just being done. And I'm not looking for people to convince me that it is fine, it's a personal thing, the value/cost ratio just is shitty for me and that's probably my history. I'm just tired of the trolls, I could go hug my dogs or deal with the trolls, which one do you think I love?
    - 1091283w12 9y ago
      Yeah, HN was for discussion a long time ago. Now it is 80% marketing people and losers pushing their narratives. Since any harsh responses are censored, the problem is getting worse. pg has also left a long time ago.
fyi1183 9y ago
I'm not going to dig up your earlier post, but discussing up- and down votes like you're doing here is an anti pattern on HN. I think that if you look objectively at your comment, you'll find that it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion, and has the potential to distract from it. Most likely that's why you've been down voted here.

realpeopleio 9y ago

What if there were paid services that promised no ads? Ever? Make it part of their policy?

HelloNurse 9y ago
Naive: instead of serving ads directly, the service would just eagerly sell your data to someone else for possibly worse purposes than ads (e.g. denying you health insurance, mortgages, a job, etc.)
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  Why? Why wouldn't the income from subscriptions be enough?
  - vageli 9y ago
    There is no such thing as "enough" when corporations seek perpetual growth.
spacehome 9y ago
Originally, this was the promise of cable television. Eventually they figured out they could charge you and deliver ads.
thebaer 9y ago
Exactly. I'm doing this with the company I've been building [0] and it works. While it's taken a while being completely bootstrapped, we make enough money to grow and focus on our users. No one is obligated to track and stalk everyone online; that's just the prevailing business model (unfortunately). [0] https://write.as/principles https://write.as/principles
- yborg 9y ago
  Yes, and when you cash out to enjoy life in the tropics, whoever you sell to will then use any and all information you may have as they see fit, and load up your service with the usual. I won't even blame you for it, this is just how things work. I believe the sincerity of your statement of principles, just as I believe that Sergei and Larry were sincere when they told Google "Don't Be Evil". Everything ultimately has a price, even your principles, and even if it is very high, there is someone out there that will meet it if they can make a profit on it. The guys like Richard Stallman that are religiously committed to their beliefs is vanishingly small, and the odds that a founder such as yourself is one of those people is correspondingly low. That doesn't mean I wouldn't use your service (which looks cool). It just means that I would have a plan in place for what I'll do when you sell out ;)