5 ms·

Thank you. Your experiences seem to mirror my own, I was very disappointed when I learned that the vipassana course was full of woo-woo, despite proclaiming not

Thank you. Your experiences seem to mirror my own, I was very disappointed when I learned that the vipassana course was full of woo-woo, despite proclaiming not to be. In addition, it kind of messed me up for quite a while afterwards, so I could not recommend it, despite finding some of the sensations I experienced during the course to be interesting. There are almost certainly going to be meditation retreats that teach you the same techniques without the religious indoctrination, which is what I wished I'd found. Leaving on day 6 was probably a good move. I stayed the full 10 days but the course didn't get any better by the end. For those that haven't done it before, there are three types of meditation that are taught at a 10-day Goenka Vipassana retreat. The first two, Anapana and Vipassana, are both very interesting and are experiences I would recommend, but the third, Metta, is basically in woo-woo territory. Metta can be described as "positive thoughts" meditation, as opposed to Anapana and Vipassana (which are both about increased self-awareness). Close your eyes, wish for world peace, now you're doing Metta. If you can find a meditation retreat that teaches Anapana and Vipassana without religious dogma then I would recommend giving it a go, but I could not recommend going to a retreat led by Goenka. YMMV.

mleonhard 9y ago
I was also angry about the religious content. I almost left the course on day 3 because of it. Then I realized that I wasn't really angry at the course. I was re-living my anger at my parents who indoctrinated me with their religion when I was a child. Then I decided to work hard on the technique, since it is a way to deal with anger. I'm glad I did. I'm sorry that you left on day 6. Day 7 is when I started to make real progress. In one of the recordings, the dude (Goenka) says that your first 10-day course is like lancing open an infected wound, letting all the pus out; painful but ultimately beneficial. That is an accurate description of my experience. Starting on day 7, I was finally able to reduce the negative emotions associated with certain ideas and memories. So I let myself touch those ideas and memories and worked hard to apply the technique. This was extremely unpleasant, but I could feel myself healing emotionally. It was the most difficult experience I have ever voluntarily gone through. But it was worth it. I'm much less angry now. In the year since I took the course, my life has gotten a lot better because of the skills I learned in the course. I found Metta to be very difficult. And several weeks later I realized why: I couldn't bring up kind thoughts toward anybody, even toward myself. I have been judgemental my entire life, toward everyone and especially toward myself. It's the result of strict authoritarian parenting. After becoming aware of my judgemental tendencies, I've noticed that they cause a lot of problems for me. I'm still really bad at Metta, but I think it helps me be less judgemental. If you can't do Metta, then you will benefit from finding out why you can't do it.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I'm glad you found the course beneficial. Regarding... > "I'm sorry that you left on day 6." ..., just to clarify, I previously stated ... "I stayed the full 10 days but the course didn't get any better by the end." It was the GP who stayed for 6 days. Regarding... > "If you can't do Metta, then you will benefit from finding out why you can't do it." I have no problem in accessing feelings of compassion, I just don't want to be forced to do it. In my opinion, obligation can take the joy out of anything, and forced love doesn't make any sense. As soon as we seek to control love we kill it. It's far better to be remove the barriers that hold you back from experiencing it, and just let it happen naturally (again, just in my opinion). The main issue I had with the course was that Goenka was steering the experience towards a certain set of interpretations of the experience. What I wanted was to be taught the technique and then be left alone to find what it uncovered. In my opinion, meditation is a personal experience, and I did not think it helped to frame the experience in the way Goenka did, especially as the people going through the retreat are likely to be in a vulnerable position (isolated, limited human interaction, limited time to adapt to new experiences). For me, attending the course was a mistake, one that I only grew from as I overcame the damage it caused through finding other teachers that I could connect with, but that being said, if you found the course beneficial I'm glad for you, I'm not trying to diminish your experience. I hope you can continue to find personal insight through meditation.
kup0 9y ago
I think that's sort of a mis-characterization of Metta (not accusing you of ill intent, to be clear), but I'm not sure how it's taught by Goenka, maybe it was demonstrated poorly. In my experience, it has been to try to wish good things towards all beings (the cessation of suffering that is essential to Buddhist philsophy), from those that are easy to love (family friends, etc) all the way out to those that are the most difficult to wish good things for (those that wrong you, prisoners, generally those we view as "less"), and its intent is not like a prayer, where you're trying to ask a deity to make it happen. It's more like Anapana/Vipassana in that it is a self-work- trying to find more compassion, trying to cultivate that towards all beings and overcome the difficulty and roadblocks that keep us from doing so. I have found Metta at times to be more profound than the rest of the practices, or at least unique. It's maybe the one practice that has made me question my stance on eating meat and has helped re-align my thoughts regarding treating "the least of these" with compassion instead of retribution, negligence, etc. I think it can be useful without any woo-woo aspects, and I've seen it taught in practical terms multiple times.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  > "I think that's sort of a mis-characterization of Metta (not accusing you of ill intent, to be clear), but I'm not sure how it's taught by Goenka, maybe it was demonstrated poorly. In my experience, it has been to try to wish good things towards all beings (the cessation of suffering that is essential to Buddhist philsophy), from those that are easy to love (family friends, etc) all the way out to those that are the most difficult to wish good things for (those that wrong you, prisoners, generally those we view as "less"), and its intent is not like a prayer, where you're trying to ask a deity to make it happen." I believe Metta was described as "loving kindess" in the course. My characterisation of "positive thoughts" was just a simplified version of that. If you get benefits out of Metta, that's fine, I hope you continue to do so, it just doesn't sit right with me. Desire to love and love are two different things, if you already feel it you don't need it, and if you seek it then you hold yourself back from feeling it. That's how I see it, but if you found benefit in the practice of Metta that's a good thing, and I hope you continue to find benefit from doing it.
  - 9y ago

mleonhard 9y ago

I was also angry about the religious content. I almost left the course on day 3 because of it. Then I realized that I wasn't really angry at the course. I was re-living my anger at my parents who indoctrinated me with their religion when I was a child. Then I decided to work hard on the technique, since it is a way to deal with anger. I'm glad I did. I'm sorry that you left on day 6. Day 7 is when I started to make real progress. In one of the recordings, the dude (Goenka) says that your first 10-day course is like lancing open an infected wound, letting all the pus out; painful but ultimately beneficial. That is an accurate description of my experience. Starting on day 7, I was finally able to reduce the negative emotions associated with certain ideas and memories. So I let myself touch those ideas and memories and worked hard to apply the technique. This was extremely unpleasant, but I could feel myself healing emotionally. It was the most difficult experience I have ever voluntarily gone through. But it was worth it. I'm much less angry now. In the year since I took the course, my life has gotten a lot better because of the skills I learned in the course. I found Metta to be very difficult. And several weeks later I realized why: I couldn't bring up kind thoughts toward anybody, even toward myself. I have been judgemental my entire life, toward everyone and especially toward myself. It's the result of strict authoritarian parenting. After becoming aware of my judgemental tendencies, I've noticed that they cause a lot of problems for me. I'm still really bad at Metta, but I think it helps me be less judgemental. If you can't do Metta, then you will benefit from finding out why you can't do it.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
I'm glad you found the course beneficial. Regarding... > "I'm sorry that you left on day 6." ..., just to clarify, I previously stated ... "I stayed the full 10 days but the course didn't get any better by the end." It was the GP who stayed for 6 days. Regarding... > "If you can't do Metta, then you will benefit from finding out why you can't do it." I have no problem in accessing feelings of compassion, I just don't want to be forced to do it. In my opinion, obligation can take the joy out of anything, and forced love doesn't make any sense. As soon as we seek to control love we kill it. It's far better to be remove the barriers that hold you back from experiencing it, and just let it happen naturally (again, just in my opinion). The main issue I had with the course was that Goenka was steering the experience towards a certain set of interpretations of the experience. What I wanted was to be taught the technique and then be left alone to find what it uncovered. In my opinion, meditation is a personal experience, and I did not think it helped to frame the experience in the way Goenka did, especially as the people going through the retreat are likely to be in a vulnerable position (isolated, limited human interaction, limited time to adapt to new experiences). For me, attending the course was a mistake, one that I only grew from as I overcame the damage it caused through finding other teachers that I could connect with, but that being said, if you found the course beneficial I'm glad for you, I'm not trying to diminish your experience. I hope you can continue to find personal insight through meditation.

kup0 9y ago

I think that's sort of a mis-characterization of Metta (not accusing you of ill intent, to be clear), but I'm not sure how it's taught by Goenka, maybe it was demonstrated poorly. In my experience, it has been to try to wish good things towards all beings (the cessation of suffering that is essential to Buddhist philsophy), from those that are easy to love (family friends, etc) all the way out to those that are the most difficult to wish good things for (those that wrong you, prisoners, generally those we view as "less"), and its intent is not like a prayer, where you're trying to ask a deity to make it happen. It's more like Anapana/Vipassana in that it is a self-work- trying to find more compassion, trying to cultivate that towards all beings and overcome the difficulty and roadblocks that keep us from doing so. I have found Metta at times to be more profound than the rest of the practices, or at least unique. It's maybe the one practice that has made me question my stance on eating meat and has helped re-align my thoughts regarding treating "the least of these" with compassion instead of retribution, negligence, etc. I think it can be useful without any woo-woo aspects, and I've seen it taught in practical terms multiple times.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
> "I think that's sort of a mis-characterization of Metta (not accusing you of ill intent, to be clear), but I'm not sure how it's taught by Goenka, maybe it was demonstrated poorly. In my experience, it has been to try to wish good things towards all beings (the cessation of suffering that is essential to Buddhist philsophy), from those that are easy to love (family friends, etc) all the way out to those that are the most difficult to wish good things for (those that wrong you, prisoners, generally those we view as "less"), and its intent is not like a prayer, where you're trying to ask a deity to make it happen." I believe Metta was described as "loving kindess" in the course. My characterisation of "positive thoughts" was just a simplified version of that. If you get benefits out of Metta, that's fine, I hope you continue to do so, it just doesn't sit right with me. Desire to love and love are two different things, if you already feel it you don't need it, and if you seek it then you hold yourself back from feeling it. That's how I see it, but if you found benefit in the practice of Metta that's a good thing, and I hope you continue to find benefit from doing it.
- 9y ago