6 ms·

Why I'm boycotting TurboTax this year

48 points by clumsysmurf 9y ago

Akujin 9y ago
Pirated every year
ukulele 9y ago
Per the article, the reason is that they're lobbying to keep the existing tax code rather than simplify it. I generally agree, but I think terms like "evil" and "parasite" get thrown around a bit too easily. We're all for simpler taxes, unless it removes the deductions that we ourselves enjoy. That is probably a much larger hindrance than any lobbying, but any such nuance is ignored in these types of shock value articles.
- maerF0x0 9y ago
  I guess the question is does the sum of fees collected + cost of lobbying exceed the value of complexity ? In some regards the cost of complexity is a tax on the general populace to deal with the poor behavior of individuals sufficiently incentivized to discover and exploit loopholes.
  - ukulele 9y ago
    That's a great starting point, and one this article makes zero effort to address. Unfortunately nuance doesn't get clicks.
nodesocket 9y ago
Here we go with the HN echo chamber piling on outrage. The original source post was created over 5 years ago (How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing -https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203). It was just "updated" and reposted again and currently on the HN front page I am guessing to generate more "interest" and donations for propublica.org.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  Only seems like you’re the one pouring on outrage here to me. You were one of the first to make a comment even.
nicoburns 9y ago
I often wonder if (many) american's hatred of taxes stems from having them shoved in their face. In the UK you don't have to file a tax return unless you have unusual finances (e.g. are self employed), and sales tax is includes in the advertised sale price of items. We still have to oay taxes of course, but they are much less annoying!
- jadedhacker 9y ago
  The IRS knows almost everything you file with them, so for millions upon millions of people it's totally pointless to file taxes. This system, that people hate, is foisted upon them to create class sympathy with people who really should be paying more taxes. They're the beautiful personalities that concocted the latest tax bill. EDIT: I should clarify that I don't mean that the particular individuals that reinforce this particular law wrote the tax bill, I see them mostly as an amorphous class of rouges much as you might regard Annonymous.
  - harryh 9y ago
    It's worth noting that the latest tax bill will simplify taxes for a lot of people due to the fact that significantly more people will take the standard deduction instead of itemizing.
    - jadedhacker 9y ago
      That's the game. Give most people a tiny concession, give the rich millions and millions of concessions. That way you can truthfully say that the bill is actually benefiting people in an extremely short sighted way. The reduction in tax revenue will soon be used to call for the elimination of social programs. Bait and switch.
      - harryh 9y ago
        I hear what you are saying and agree with a lot of it. But you said that tax complexity was foisted on people in order to make them be more in favor of lower taxes for the rich. I was merely pointing out that this wasn't really the case in the most recent tax bill as complexity for many typical filers was generally reduced.
awat 9y ago
There is an awesome Adam ruins everything episode on Tax returns. It seems that rent seeking is pretty much the only thing keeping the current system in place.
- harryh 9y ago
  Adam is wrong. We don't have return free filing because making people fill out complex forms every year makes them hate taxes more and (generally speaking) vote in favor of lower taxes. This ideological position has far more to do with our current system than a relatively small amount of lobbying.
shmerl 9y ago
What about TaxAct?
- eyeareque 9y ago
  I use them instead of Intuit for exactly this reason. Intuit is an evil parasite.
- skybrian 9y ago
  Anecdata: this year I used TaxAct and then TurboTax, because I wasn't entirely confident in the results from TaxAct. After fixing a data entry mistake or two, I was able to make them come out same. However, I was much happier with TurboTax's handling of employee stock options, because it walks you through how to correct the incorrect cost basis that brokerages are required to report by law. (This changed a few years ago.) At that point I could have submitted either one, but ended up paying for TurboTax since I felt like rewarding them for better UI. (While fixing an error, I did run into a recalculation bug in TurboTax, though; it's not clear how to report it.)
  - Noumenon72 9y ago
    I was never able to get TurboTax to fix errors, either; I switched to olt.com and they respond to my emails right away.
kjhughes 9y ago
More along those lines: Why doesn’t the IRS just send me a bill for the taxes I owe based on the info they already have? [1] [1] https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/30223/20593 https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/30223/20593
purplezooey 9y ago
"...don't give Intuit money" Well, give me the $300 I need to find a preparer then. TurboTax is an incredible value. You can do your taxes in your pajamas over a couple nights and it can handle almost every complex area. The fanciest version is about $60. I've used it for ten years.

48 points by clumsysmurf 9y ago

Pirated every year

Per the article, the reason is that they're lobbying to keep the existing tax code rather than simplify it. I generally agree, but I think terms like "evil" and "parasite" get thrown around a bit too easily. We're all for simpler taxes, unless it removes the deductions that we ourselves enjoy. That is probably a much larger hindrance than any lobbying, but any such nuance is ignored in these types of shock value articles.

maerF0x0 9y ago
I guess the question is does the sum of fees collected + cost of lobbying exceed the value of complexity ? In some regards the cost of complexity is a tax on the general populace to deal with the poor behavior of individuals sufficiently incentivized to discover and exploit loopholes.
- ukulele 9y ago
  That's a great starting point, and one this article makes zero effort to address. Unfortunately nuance doesn't get clicks.

nodesocket 9y ago

Here we go with the HN echo chamber piling on outrage. The original source post was created over 5 years ago (How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing -https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5443203). It was just "updated" and reposted again and currently on the HN front page I am guessing to generate more "interest" and donations for propublica.org.

jsjohnst 9y ago
Only seems like you’re the one pouring on outrage here to me. You were one of the first to make a comment even.

nicoburns 9y ago

I often wonder if (many) american's hatred of taxes stems from having them shoved in their face. In the UK you don't have to file a tax return unless you have unusual finances (e.g. are self employed), and sales tax is includes in the advertised sale price of items. We still have to oay taxes of course, but they are much less annoying!

jadedhacker 9y ago
The IRS knows almost everything you file with them, so for millions upon millions of people it's totally pointless to file taxes. This system, that people hate, is foisted upon them to create class sympathy with people who really should be paying more taxes. They're the beautiful personalities that concocted the latest tax bill. EDIT: I should clarify that I don't mean that the particular individuals that reinforce this particular law wrote the tax bill, I see them mostly as an amorphous class of rouges much as you might regard Annonymous.
- harryh 9y ago
  It's worth noting that the latest tax bill will simplify taxes for a lot of people due to the fact that significantly more people will take the standard deduction instead of itemizing.
  - jadedhacker 9y ago
    That's the game. Give most people a tiny concession, give the rich millions and millions of concessions. That way you can truthfully say that the bill is actually benefiting people in an extremely short sighted way. The reduction in tax revenue will soon be used to call for the elimination of social programs. Bait and switch.
    - harryh 9y ago
      I hear what you are saying and agree with a lot of it. But you said that tax complexity was foisted on people in order to make them be more in favor of lower taxes for the rich. I was merely pointing out that this wasn't really the case in the most recent tax bill as complexity for many typical filers was generally reduced.

awat 9y ago

There is an awesome Adam ruins everything episode on Tax returns. It seems that rent seeking is pretty much the only thing keeping the current system in place.

harryh 9y ago
Adam is wrong. We don't have return free filing because making people fill out complex forms every year makes them hate taxes more and (generally speaking) vote in favor of lower taxes. This ideological position has far more to do with our current system than a relatively small amount of lobbying.

shmerl 9y ago

What about TaxAct?

eyeareque 9y ago
I use them instead of Intuit for exactly this reason. Intuit is an evil parasite.
skybrian 9y ago
Anecdata: this year I used TaxAct and then TurboTax, because I wasn't entirely confident in the results from TaxAct. After fixing a data entry mistake or two, I was able to make them come out same. However, I was much happier with TurboTax's handling of employee stock options, because it walks you through how to correct the incorrect cost basis that brokerages are required to report by law. (This changed a few years ago.) At that point I could have submitted either one, but ended up paying for TurboTax since I felt like rewarding them for better UI. (While fixing an error, I did run into a recalculation bug in TurboTax, though; it's not clear how to report it.)
- Noumenon72 9y ago
  I was never able to get TurboTax to fix errors, either; I switched to olt.com and they respond to my emails right away.

kjhughes 9y ago

More along those lines: Why doesn’t the IRS just send me a bill for the taxes I owe based on the info they already have? [1] [1] https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/30223/20593 https://politics.stackexchange.com/q/30223/20593

purplezooey 9y ago

"...don't give Intuit money" Well, give me the $300 I need to find a preparer then. TurboTax is an incredible value. You can do your taxes in your pajamas over a couple nights and it can handle almost every complex area. The fanciest version is about $60. I've used it for ten years.