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> How easy is it to share a Jupyter notebook with someone else, versus sharing an org-mode notebook? Well, now you're talking about a whole environment. Use do

> How easy is it to share a Jupyter notebook with someone else, versus sharing an org-mode notebook? Well, now you're talking about a whole environment. Use docker, or VMs or whatever. There's plenty of options for doing this (we actually use Docker for Jupyter, to make sure we work off a consistent install, so I guess sharing can be non-trivial if you walk a bit off the beaten path, anyway) > If I choose to use a different language than Python in my org-node notebook, the recipient will have to install that programming language and environment themselves before they can use your notebook. Sure, and if you need to use another language from your Jupyter notebook, you can't. I don't get your point. Yes, if you need to use a tool, you need to install it. It requires a minimum of computer literacy.

jononor 9y ago
There are Jupyter kernels for most languages out there. https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels
- tincholio 9y ago
  And for the most part, you cannot use them at the same time from the same notebook.
dahart 9y ago
Yes, Anaconda + Jupyter is an environment and org mode is not. That’s a big reason Jupyter is so popular. > I don’t get your point. My point was Jupyter inflicts far less technical burden and debt on other people. There’s a huge downside to custom environments. If that’s not obvious, that explains why it’s hard to understand jupyter’s popularity. > it requires a minimum of computer literacy I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but this borders on white tower programmer centric dismissiveness. Personally I know how to install all the things an org mode notebook might require, but I don’t want to. It takes too much of my time and energy. Expecting other people to adopt your choice of tools and environment by arguing that your tools are basic literacy is presumptuous. Use org mode, I’m wildly in favor of people using tools that they like, and you like it. Just don’t claim it’s objectively better on all axes when it’s not.
- tincholio 9y ago
  > Yes, Anaconda + Jupyter is an environment and org mode is not. That’s a big reason Jupyter is so popular. You're again comparing apples to oranges. If you want to use Jupyter, you need to install a whole lot of stuff (easier to do if you're using Anaconda, agreed). It's "not simple" enough that there are public docker images for it. My point is that when tooling is an issue, you can do the exact same thing with an org-based setup. >My point was Jupyter inflicts far less technical burden and debt on other people. There’s a huge downside to custom environments. If that’s not obvious, that explains why it’s hard to understand jupyter’s popularity. I agree that there's difficulty in achieving reproducible environments, and that's why there's tools that handle that for you. I think that much of Jupyter's popularity comes from the fact that it's easily available, and based on Python, which let's non-programmers get started moderately quickly. I just don't think that it's the best choice. This is not to shit on Jupyter, I've mentioned a bunch of advantages of using org (which by the way, you haven't really addressed, other than focusing on the setup aspects) > I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but this borders on white tower programmer centric dismissiveness. It's not, really. My point is that when you're doing presumably advanced analysis on presumably complex data, you (should!) certainly have the capacity to deal with tooling.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Sure, and if you need to use another language from your Jupyter notebook, you can't. Not entirely true, BTW. https://blog.dominodatalab.com/lesser-known-ways-of-using-notebooks/ https://blog.dominodatalab.com/lesser-known-ways-of-using-no...
- tincholio 9y ago
  Still limited, and pretty clumsy. Have a look here: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html

jononor 9y ago

There are Jupyter kernels for most languages out there. https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels https://github.com/jupyter/jupyter/wiki/Jupyter-kernels

tincholio 9y ago
And for the most part, you cannot use them at the same time from the same notebook.

dahart 9y ago

Yes, Anaconda + Jupyter is an environment and org mode is not. That’s a big reason Jupyter is so popular. > I don’t get your point. My point was Jupyter inflicts far less technical burden and debt on other people. There’s a huge downside to custom environments. If that’s not obvious, that explains why it’s hard to understand jupyter’s popularity. > it requires a minimum of computer literacy I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but this borders on white tower programmer centric dismissiveness. Personally I know how to install all the things an org mode notebook might require, but I don’t want to. It takes too much of my time and energy. Expecting other people to adopt your choice of tools and environment by arguing that your tools are basic literacy is presumptuous. Use org mode, I’m wildly in favor of people using tools that they like, and you like it. Just don’t claim it’s objectively better on all axes when it’s not.

tincholio 9y ago
> Yes, Anaconda + Jupyter is an environment and org mode is not. That’s a big reason Jupyter is so popular. You're again comparing apples to oranges. If you want to use Jupyter, you need to install a whole lot of stuff (easier to do if you're using Anaconda, agreed). It's "not simple" enough that there are public docker images for it. My point is that when tooling is an issue, you can do the exact same thing with an org-based setup. >My point was Jupyter inflicts far less technical burden and debt on other people. There’s a huge downside to custom environments. If that’s not obvious, that explains why it’s hard to understand jupyter’s popularity. I agree that there's difficulty in achieving reproducible environments, and that's why there's tools that handle that for you. I think that much of Jupyter's popularity comes from the fact that it's easily available, and based on Python, which let's non-programmers get started moderately quickly. I just don't think that it's the best choice. This is not to shit on Jupyter, I've mentioned a bunch of advantages of using org (which by the way, you haven't really addressed, other than focusing on the setup aspects) > I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but this borders on white tower programmer centric dismissiveness. It's not, really. My point is that when you're doing presumably advanced analysis on presumably complex data, you (should!) certainly have the capacity to deal with tooling.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Sure, and if you need to use another language from your Jupyter notebook, you can't. Not entirely true, BTW. https://blog.dominodatalab.com/lesser-known-ways-of-using-notebooks/ https://blog.dominodatalab.com/lesser-known-ways-of-using-no...

tincholio 9y ago
Still limited, and pretty clumsy. Have a look here: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages.html