4 ms·

You don't think money or favors change hands under the table frequently? It would elsewhere in the world, I have trouble believing US politicians are so honest

by eloff 9y ago

You don't think money or favors change hands under the table frequently? It would elsewhere in the world, I have trouble believing US politicians are so honest as to not be on the take.

rayiner 9y ago
I do not. US bribery laws are among the most strict in the world (including relative to Europe) and prosecutions are common. Just last year a sitting US senator was tried for bribery charges (which ended in a mistrial because the jury couldn’t reach a unanimous verdict).
- doorbumper 9y ago
  I somewhat agree with you. The US does have a great system in place, and I believe that in the US we're most likely to catch bribery when it occurs, if not close. However, the fact that catching bribery is common means that bribery is even more common than that. You just can't get around the fact that politicians are people and people are vulnerable to bribery.
azinman2 9y ago
Doesn’t need to. Campaign finance is legal and crazy cheap for the outcomes achieved. Typically tens of thousands to get millions or billions in breaks and pork.
- rayiner 9y ago
  That’s a self-defeating assertion. If legal campaign donations were so high return, more companies would make them, driving up the price. You’re presupposing the existence of this enormous arbitrage opportunity that nobody is talking advantage of, because...? Shit, I can swing “tens of thousands.” Can you tell me how to get “millions” in pork? Shouldn’t YC companies just blow the $120,000 they get in campaign contributions?
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    You cannot argue against reality with hypotheticals. Present reality is as stupid as described.
    - 18pfsmt 9y ago
      The GP's opinion isn't reality, and the argument was based on the false assertion that thousands begets millions (or more). This is similar to the people that tell me, "perpetual energy machines exist, but the fossil fuel industry is suppressing them"
      - azinman2 9y ago
        Not opinion — go look on any database of campaign contributions and see the dollar amounts from biggies like Google, Exxon, Koch brothers, Disney, Coca-Cola, etc. A mere combined 800k in contributions to many politicians allowed Disney to further extend the copyright life of Mickey Mouse: https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/pdfs/casestudies/cases/disney---nov-2017.pdf https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/p...
        rayiner 9y ago
        So you’re saying that it would’ve taken just $800,001 to block that copyright extension? Because whoever challenged it in the Supreme Court likely spent more than that in just legal fees doing so.
        michaelmrose 9y ago
        Paying lawyers a bunch of money might increase cocaine sales in the area but it gets nobody elected. If the 800k +1 was from a group with staying power likely to contribute more in the future maybe
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    You could invest $50k in lobbying and $70k in getting procurement paperwork done and build a fantastic book of business with government. You just wouldn’t meet VC growth targets.

by eloff 9y ago

You don't think money or favors change hands under the table frequently? It would elsewhere in the world, I have trouble believing US politicians are so honest as to not be on the take.

rayiner 9y ago

I do not. US bribery laws are among the most strict in the world (including relative to Europe) and prosecutions are common. Just last year a sitting US senator was tried for bribery charges (which ended in a mistrial because the jury couldn’t reach a unanimous verdict).

doorbumper 9y ago
I somewhat agree with you. The US does have a great system in place, and I believe that in the US we're most likely to catch bribery when it occurs, if not close. However, the fact that catching bribery is common means that bribery is even more common than that. You just can't get around the fact that politicians are people and people are vulnerable to bribery.

azinman2 9y ago

Doesn’t need to. Campaign finance is legal and crazy cheap for the outcomes achieved. Typically tens of thousands to get millions or billions in breaks and pork.

rayiner 9y ago
That’s a self-defeating assertion. If legal campaign donations were so high return, more companies would make them, driving up the price. You’re presupposing the existence of this enormous arbitrage opportunity that nobody is talking advantage of, because...? Shit, I can swing “tens of thousands.” Can you tell me how to get “millions” in pork? Shouldn’t YC companies just blow the $120,000 they get in campaign contributions?
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  You cannot argue against reality with hypotheticals. Present reality is as stupid as described.
  - 18pfsmt 9y ago
    The GP's opinion isn't reality, and the argument was based on the false assertion that thousands begets millions (or more). This is similar to the people that tell me, "perpetual energy machines exist, but the fossil fuel industry is suppressing them"
    - azinman2 9y ago
      Not opinion — go look on any database of campaign contributions and see the dollar amounts from biggies like Google, Exxon, Koch brothers, Disney, Coca-Cola, etc. A mere combined 800k in contributions to many politicians allowed Disney to further extend the copyright life of Mickey Mouse: https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/pdfs/casestudies/cases/disney---nov-2017.pdf https://research.chicagobooth.edu/-/media/research/stigler/p...
      - rayiner 9y ago
        So you’re saying that it would’ve taken just $800,001 to block that copyright extension? Because whoever challenged it in the Supreme Court likely spent more than that in just legal fees doing so.
        michaelmrose 9y ago
        Paying lawyers a bunch of money might increase cocaine sales in the area but it gets nobody elected. If the 800k +1 was from a group with staying power likely to contribute more in the future maybe
- Spooky23 9y ago
  You could invest $50k in lobbying and $70k in getting procurement paperwork done and build a fantastic book of business with government. You just wouldn’t meet VC growth targets.