8 ms·

In an opinion piece for The Daily Caller and on his site, Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., said “making the tax collector also the tax preparer creates an inherent co

by gbacon 9y ago

In an opinion piece for The Daily Caller and on his site, Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., said “making the tax collector also the tax preparer creates an inherent conflict of interest while forcing citizens to relinquish control of their taxes to the government.” The government already controls taxes and thus citizens’ incomes. In a time when so many are worried about privacy, few voice any concern about the enormous privacy problems inherent in the forced full disclosure of the intimate details of one’s financial affairs. Fiscal year 2019 is forecast to have federal revenue of $3.422 trillion[0], of which $1.688 trillion will be from individual income taxes. That means repealing the income tax and replacing it with nothing would take the federal budget not back to the founding era or even the nineteenth century but to the Clinton years[1]. [0]: https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762 https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-ta... [1]: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-and-outlay-summary http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-an...

Retric 9y ago
Social security and Medicare are individual income taxes and add up to quite a bit even if people pretend they are not 'income taxes'. Cutting close to 3 trilllon from the federal taxes would mean vast disruption and many older workers and other beneficiaries ending in deep poverty.
- gbacon 9y ago
  The cited figure is for individual (e.g., Form 1040) income taxes. Payroll taxes are in separate categories.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Payroll taxes are based on wages, so they would also need to removed if you want to hide pay from the government.
TheCondor 9y ago
Isn’t Grover Norquist and his tribe also against this stuff? I think that was the issue with California’s readyReturn system. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/epis...
maxxxxx 9y ago
This quote is just another example of willful misunderstanding of issues by the people in Congress. They don't even try to understand an issue but stick to some talking points that make sense only on the surface. It's really infuriating that such idiots are allowed to participate in the discussion of important issues. The same happens in health care. If the IRS sent a pre-prepared tax return it would give the tax payer an advantage because the IRS would give away what it already knows. In the current situation the tax payer sends a return and the IRS compares it to the data they already have. The tax payer doesn't know what the IRS knows though.
- yborg 9y ago
  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" In the very article, it's noted that Roskam was the direct recipient of campaign contributions from Intuit and H&R Block. To me, this is plain anti-establishment pandering, and ironic in that the anti-establishment movement was once considered the domain of radical leftists. That the people are better off having their taxes calculated by for-profit corporations that directly donate to the individuals who control the government seems counter-intuitive to me.
  - tzs 9y ago
    > In the very article, it's noted that Roskam was the direct recipient of campaign contributions from Intuit and H&R Block. The contribution from Intuit was $13 600 over 10 years. During that same period there was also $21 200 from individuals who worked for Intuit. If we count all of that as being Intuit, that's a total of $34 800 over 10 years. For H&R Block, it was $2 500. If $3.7k/year is enough to buy a Congressman's vote, a handful of middle class people in the district should be able to get together and easily afford to counter that. For a group of 10 like minded people, that's only $31/month each. I think people generally get the causality wrong on the relationship between campaign contributions and the positions or votes of the politician. The politicians don't set their positions based on campaign contributions. It's usually the other way around--the contributors chose where to place their contributions based on the known positions and past votes of the politician. If that is not known, they place contributions based on party, on the assumption that the politician is going to generally go along with the party.
guelo 9y ago
The payroll taxes are earmarked. Stop trying to steal them.
conanbatt 9y ago
I have a beef with income tax, but Im not sure it is worse than the other half being raised. Sales taxes also suck. Property taxes are better but still have some issues. The undoubtedly terrible issue with income taxes is that they are complicated for almost no economic gain and at great inefficiency. And in this topic both parties agree to disagree: a flat income tax of 15% would be unwelcome by the progressive taxation democrats, and unwelcome by republican tax exemptionists. The US is very stuck on this issue. "The problem is that the left and the right distrust each other and they are both right" - Milton Friedman.
- Redoubts 9y ago
  Not sure that approach would even help. Brackets aren’t the hard part of taxes. Usually it’s the “what is income” part.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    No brackets, no exemptions.
- njarboe 9y ago
  Just imagine a time (pre 1913, US) when people could trade with each other without the government taking its cut, plus the nasty paperwork, and everyone not in compliance even when they want to be. I'd love to have some kind of land tax + national sales tax and get rid of income tax.
  - adamnemecek 9y ago
    Are you aware of georgism? The only taxed thing is land. I wonder if it could work.
    - conanbatt 9y ago
      What is interesting about the Land value tax is that, althought it might be crazy to think abuout at national level, it is perfectly reasonable and easy to do at the local level. And economists both left and right agree that its a good tax. I never quite got why property taxes are so popular in the us and land value tax isnt. It just makes plain sense. California is the first state that should be implementing it: if it had it, its housing problems would dissapear quickly. Nimbyism would dissapear very quickly.

by gbacon 9y ago

Retric 9y ago

Social security and Medicare are individual income taxes and add up to quite a bit even if people pretend they are not 'income taxes'. Cutting close to 3 trilllon from the federal taxes would mean vast disruption and many older workers and other beneficiaries ending in deep poverty.

gbacon 9y ago
The cited figure is for individual (e.g., Form 1040) income taxes. Payroll taxes are in separate categories.
- Retric 9y ago
  Payroll taxes are based on wages, so they would also need to removed if you want to hide pay from the government.

TheCondor 9y ago

Isn’t Grover Norquist and his tribe also against this stuff? I think that was the issue with California’s readyReturn system. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/epis...

maxxxxx 9y ago

This quote is just another example of willful misunderstanding of issues by the people in Congress. They don't even try to understand an issue but stick to some talking points that make sense only on the surface. It's really infuriating that such idiots are allowed to participate in the discussion of important issues. The same happens in health care. If the IRS sent a pre-prepared tax return it would give the tax payer an advantage because the IRS would give away what it already knows. In the current situation the tax payer sends a return and the IRS compares it to the data they already have. The tax payer doesn't know what the IRS knows though.

yborg 9y ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" In the very article, it's noted that Roskam was the direct recipient of campaign contributions from Intuit and H&R Block. To me, this is plain anti-establishment pandering, and ironic in that the anti-establishment movement was once considered the domain of radical leftists. That the people are better off having their taxes calculated by for-profit corporations that directly donate to the individuals who control the government seems counter-intuitive to me.
- tzs 9y ago
  > In the very article, it's noted that Roskam was the direct recipient of campaign contributions from Intuit and H&R Block. The contribution from Intuit was $13 600 over 10 years. During that same period there was also $21 200 from individuals who worked for Intuit. If we count all of that as being Intuit, that's a total of $34 800 over 10 years. For H&R Block, it was $2 500. If $3.7k/year is enough to buy a Congressman's vote, a handful of middle class people in the district should be able to get together and easily afford to counter that. For a group of 10 like minded people, that's only $31/month each. I think people generally get the causality wrong on the relationship between campaign contributions and the positions or votes of the politician. The politicians don't set their positions based on campaign contributions. It's usually the other way around--the contributors chose where to place their contributions based on the known positions and past votes of the politician. If that is not known, they place contributions based on party, on the assumption that the politician is going to generally go along with the party.

guelo 9y ago

The payroll taxes are earmarked. Stop trying to steal them.

conanbatt 9y ago

I have a beef with income tax, but Im not sure it is worse than the other half being raised. Sales taxes also suck. Property taxes are better but still have some issues. The undoubtedly terrible issue with income taxes is that they are complicated for almost no economic gain and at great inefficiency. And in this topic both parties agree to disagree: a flat income tax of 15% would be unwelcome by the progressive taxation democrats, and unwelcome by republican tax exemptionists. The US is very stuck on this issue. "The problem is that the left and the right distrust each other and they are both right" - Milton Friedman.

Redoubts 9y ago
Not sure that approach would even help. Brackets aren’t the hard part of taxes. Usually it’s the “what is income” part.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  No brackets, no exemptions.
njarboe 9y ago
Just imagine a time (pre 1913, US) when people could trade with each other without the government taking its cut, plus the nasty paperwork, and everyone not in compliance even when they want to be. I'd love to have some kind of land tax + national sales tax and get rid of income tax.
- adamnemecek 9y ago
  Are you aware of georgism? The only taxed thing is land. I wonder if it could work.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    What is interesting about the Land value tax is that, althought it might be crazy to think abuout at national level, it is perfectly reasonable and easy to do at the local level. And economists both left and right agree that its a good tax. I never quite got why property taxes are so popular in the us and land value tax isnt. It just makes plain sense. California is the first state that should be implementing it: if it had it, its housing problems would dissapear quickly. Nimbyism would dissapear very quickly.