4 ms·

Pensions are not a pyramid scheme any more than any other form of retirement fund is. Give me a break.

by ebbv 8y ago

someguydave 8y ago
There is one retirement fund that isn’t a pyramid scheme: the kind where the retiree saves in his own account and faces investment risks like everyone else. Forcing taxpayers to shelter you from risk is slimy, even if you have a “negotiated agreement” signed by some politician.
- ebbv 8y ago
  You realize 401k programs at most companies are treated as a pool just like pension funds right? The difference is politicians had domain over the pension funds and decided to "borrow" from them and make them insolvent. The workers are not the ones to blame, the politicians who thought using the pension funds as a piggy bank are. Stop blaming the workers. They didn't cause this problem, and they paid into those retirement funds. The politicians who caused the problem are the ones who want you to blame the workers, stop being their patsy.
  - someguydave 8y ago
    >You realize 401k programs at most companies are treated as a pool just like pension funds right? That's false. One of the requirements of a qualified plan under section 401 is that the employee has a nonforfeitable right to plan benefits: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-sponsor/401k-plan-qualification-requirements https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-sponsor/401k-plan-... The corporations who tell workers that the corporation can take money out of employer 401k plans without authorization are trying to scare the workers, stop being their patsy. >The politicians who caused the problem are the ones who want you to blame the workers, stop being their patsy. The workers should have known that future promises to pay which would drive the government into insolvency were promises made in bad faith. This doesn't absolve the politicians of their sins, but the workers are not innocent lambs either.
    - ebbv 8y ago
      Again you keep talking like insolvency was inevitable. It wasn’t. It happened because politicians misused the funds. I’m bored of arguing with you though. It serves no purpose because you are just regurgitating right wing talking points.
      - someguydave 8y ago
        Anyone who could count new hires and had access to an actuarial death table would be able to determine the size of the problem, even 30 years ago. I apologize if that kind of thinking is probably boring.

Pensions are not a pyramid scheme any more than any other form of retirement fund is. Give me a break.

by ebbv 8y ago

Pensions are not a pyramid scheme any more than any other form of retirement fund is. Give me a break.

There is one retirement fund that isn’t a pyramid scheme: the kind where the retiree saves in his own account and faces investment risks like everyone else. Forcing taxpayers to shelter you from risk is slimy, even if you have a “negotiated agreement” signed by some politician.

ebbv 8y ago
You realize 401k programs at most companies are treated as a pool just like pension funds right? The difference is politicians had domain over the pension funds and decided to "borrow" from them and make them insolvent. The workers are not the ones to blame, the politicians who thought using the pension funds as a piggy bank are. Stop blaming the workers. They didn't cause this problem, and they paid into those retirement funds. The politicians who caused the problem are the ones who want you to blame the workers, stop being their patsy.
- someguydave 8y ago
  >You realize 401k programs at most companies are treated as a pool just like pension funds right? That's false. One of the requirements of a qualified plan under section 401 is that the employee has a nonforfeitable right to plan benefits: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-sponsor/401k-plan-qualification-requirements https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-sponsor/401k-plan-... The corporations who tell workers that the corporation can take money out of employer 401k plans without authorization are trying to scare the workers, stop being their patsy. >The politicians who caused the problem are the ones who want you to blame the workers, stop being their patsy. The workers should have known that future promises to pay which would drive the government into insolvency were promises made in bad faith. This doesn't absolve the politicians of their sins, but the workers are not innocent lambs either.
  - ebbv 8y ago
    Again you keep talking like insolvency was inevitable. It wasn’t. It happened because politicians misused the funds. I’m bored of arguing with you though. It serves no purpose because you are just regurgitating right wing talking points.
    - someguydave 8y ago
      Anyone who could count new hires and had access to an actuarial death table would be able to determine the size of the problem, even 30 years ago. I apologize if that kind of thinking is probably boring.