4 ms·

Mentioning federal employees in a discussion of state/local employees is an apples-to-oranges comparison. Please provide sources to counter the assertion that

Mentioning federal employees in a discussion of state/local employees is an apples-to-oranges comparison. Please provide sources to counter the assertion that state/local employees often get large pensions in lieu of salary.

dominotw 9y ago
That assertion makes sense if quality of candidates drops when pension is removed. We don't know exactly why ppl are choosing govt jobs. My wife choose it because it offers 9-5, no overtime.
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  If your wife was a sole earner without a spouse's income to supplement her household, would she be as willing to accept low wages now in exchange for a high pension later? Or would she look for a job that pays enough to cover her cost of living today, since that's a prerequisite to reaching the pension age?
  - dominotw 9y ago
    yes ofcourse I was merely suggesting that there are other reasons why ppl choose govt jobs and the quality of candidates might not drop if we removed pension.
rayiner 9y ago
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/06/us/public-private-employees.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011...
smallnamespace 9y ago
Here are the top government earners in SF county: https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2017/san-francisco/?&s=-total https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2017/san-francisc... I don't immediately see examples of 'pensions in lieu of salary', but those are some pretty substantial total packages, with benefits alone reaching ~$60k+/yr for many public officials.
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  So, of San Francisco county employees listed there, 3% have a total pay > $200k. Given the cost of living in the area, it sounds like they might actually be paying competitive salary, though it also looks like a lot of the people in that 3% are actually firefighters or sheriff's officers who pull in a lot of overtime. "Benefits" also isn't a great category to look at, because I'd be willing to bet that if you're a software developer your benefits package is pretty expensive too and you just don't realize it. Going by their definition of "benefits", and looking up some of my own records, it looks like $60k is not that hard to hit. Insurance and 401(k) matching (or pension contributions, for a government employee) are more expensive than you probably think they are.
tptacek 9y ago
The median annual cash compensation for a teacher in my kid's public high school district in Illinois is six figures. I know that's not true of teachers in other states; Oklahoma teachers look like they're getting shafted. But in Illinois, where we have a public pension crisis, I don't have trouble coming up with evidence that public sector employees did not make cash comp sacrifices for their defined-benefit pensions.
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  What were the teachers in Illinois making a couple decades ago?
  - tptacek 9y ago
    I’ll ask my mom. I’m much much more concerned with current comp than comp 2 decades ago.
throwaway95914 9y ago
My wife picked her state job in large because of the retirement options and it being a 9-5 job. Her degree is at a higher level, she's a civil engineer and with a professional license on top; as a tech person,I make about 50% more. If she went to a private company, that actually paid women the same as men, we would make almost the same. Her choice was to bet on the state after having been exploited in the private sector and with no recourse.

dominotw 9y ago

That assertion makes sense if quality of candidates drops when pension is removed. We don't know exactly why ppl are choosing govt jobs. My wife choose it because it offers 9-5, no overtime.

ubernostrum 9y ago
If your wife was a sole earner without a spouse's income to supplement her household, would she be as willing to accept low wages now in exchange for a high pension later? Or would she look for a job that pays enough to cover her cost of living today, since that's a prerequisite to reaching the pension age?
- dominotw 9y ago
  yes ofcourse I was merely suggesting that there are other reasons why ppl choose govt jobs and the quality of candidates might not drop if we removed pension.

rayiner 9y ago

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/06/us/public-private-employees.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011...

smallnamespace 9y ago

Here are the top government earners in SF county: https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2017/san-francisco/?&s=-total https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2017/san-francisc... I don't immediately see examples of 'pensions in lieu of salary', but those are some pretty substantial total packages, with benefits alone reaching ~$60k+/yr for many public officials.

ubernostrum 9y ago
So, of San Francisco county employees listed there, 3% have a total pay > $200k. Given the cost of living in the area, it sounds like they might actually be paying competitive salary, though it also looks like a lot of the people in that 3% are actually firefighters or sheriff's officers who pull in a lot of overtime. "Benefits" also isn't a great category to look at, because I'd be willing to bet that if you're a software developer your benefits package is pretty expensive too and you just don't realize it. Going by their definition of "benefits", and looking up some of my own records, it looks like $60k is not that hard to hit. Insurance and 401(k) matching (or pension contributions, for a government employee) are more expensive than you probably think they are.

tptacek 9y ago

The median annual cash compensation for a teacher in my kid's public high school district in Illinois is six figures. I know that's not true of teachers in other states; Oklahoma teachers look like they're getting shafted. But in Illinois, where we have a public pension crisis, I don't have trouble coming up with evidence that public sector employees did not make cash comp sacrifices for their defined-benefit pensions.

ubernostrum 9y ago
What were the teachers in Illinois making a couple decades ago?
- tptacek 9y ago
  I’ll ask my mom. I’m much much more concerned with current comp than comp 2 decades ago.

throwaway95914 9y ago

My wife picked her state job in large because of the retirement options and it being a 9-5 job. Her degree is at a higher level, she's a civil engineer and with a professional license on top; as a tech person,I make about 50% more. If she went to a private company, that actually paid women the same as men, we would make almost the same. Her choice was to bet on the state after having been exploited in the private sector and with no recourse.