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I would definitely say that about vision, not so much dental. I don't think most people realize how linked dental health is to physical health and wellbeing...p

I would definitely say that about vision, not so much dental. I don't think most people realize how linked dental health is to physical health and wellbeing...plenty of studies on ties of poor dental hygiene and cardiovascular disease. If anything I'd advocate to require health insurance companies to bundle adult dental care instead of it being a separate insurance product.

eloff 9y ago
None of which has any bearing on whether dental insurance is worthwhile vs paying out of pocket.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  Are you speaking as a consumer? Dental insurance is really cheap...it's like $300/year. Many employers cover all or most of this cost if you get it through a company. If you pay 100% of your premium and have 2 regular cleanings, it's basically a payment plan. If you require any other services (deep cleaning for example) then it would definitely be cheaper to pay for insurance than OOP.
  - TylerE 9y ago
    I'm guessing you're not in the US? Here, the polices have VERY low lifetime caps. One root canal can wipe it out. Other than that, it's basically prepaying for an annual cleaning.
    - dawhizkid 9y ago
      Yes I'm in the US. Lifetime caps are generally for ortho and implants. I've not heard of a lifetime cap on root canals but maybe this varies by insurance company. Again, yes if you only get cleanings then it's a payment plan...from a customer POV why would you not prefer a 0% interest payment plan with added protection in case you need literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 cleanings a year?
      - bdcravens 9y ago
        > from a customer POV why would you not prefer a 0% interest payment plan with added protection in case you need literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 cleanings a year? I also see it like retirement savings. You're more likely to forgo the expense if it hasn't already been taken out
    - ghaff 9y ago
      It varies. I have calendar year maximums and some other limits but no lifetime maximum. This is US. (ADDED: Oh, right. I think there is an ortho lifetime max.)
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      My plan covers basic work (which includes root canals) at 80%, major work (like implants and crowns) at 50%, up to $1500/year. This is at a cost of about $350/year, so it's definitely more than just low-cost cleanings. (I can't find information on limits, but I'm not sure they apply, since I pay any amount over the 80% or $1500 a year)
      - nickjj 9y ago
        The problem with major work is it's substantially more than $1,500. A single dental implant from end to end in the US is usually in the $4,000 to $5,000 range.
        bdcravens 9y ago
        Of course. Unless you get a discount for not having insurance, that's $1500 (minus annual premiums) less than you would have spent.
        pravda 9y ago
        >A single dental implant from end to end in the US is usually in the $4,000 to $5,000 range. Huh? It is much cheaper then that. About half that.
        nickjj 9y ago
        That includes both the surgery and the crown. A Lot of places quote $4,000 as being the average. I'm sure you could get it cheaper if you went to a University. Keep in mind those prices don't include additional things like extracting your original tooth, bone grafting if you happen to need it, or getting sedated (because who would want to go through that with just novocain). It can get really expensive.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  If all you do is cleaning, probably not, more so if you aren't diligent about your visits. However, if you know you need work done, it is cost effective over paying full price. (many plans cover $500-$1500 of work each year, and cost an individual about $300-400/year)
  - eloff 9y ago
    That's rubbish. How do you think their business model works? They make enough to pay your procedure, plus all their overhead, plus return a profit to their shareholders - all out of your premiums. Unless you have reason to believe you're going to require many times more procedures than the average person, it's a waste of money. With health insurance it's very different, because if you get unlucky it could bankrupt you. A $500-$1500 dental bill is only marginally more than a years premiums, and you won't be needing to pay that every year. It only makes sense if your employer pays it as a benefit. EDIT I missed the "if you know you need work done" part, or it was added afterward. Clearly if there's no limitations on pre-existing conditions AND no requirement that you maintain the policy for at least N years AND you know you need work done, then it may well make sense temporarily. It's just math, and you have to do the math and read all the fine print. But without that asymmetric "insider knowledge" that you need work, or that you will need substantially more work than the average, you're expected return will be negative.
    - kbutler 9y ago
      bdcravens said "if you know you need work done, it is cost effective over paying full price" and eloff tried to contradict by saying it's rubbish unless you know you need more than average. Agreed, dental insurance tends to be more like pre-payment, but if you do the math and it works out (and there aren't limitations on pre-existing conditions!) it can be a good option even on an individual basis.
      - bdcravens 9y ago
        Worth noting that unlike health insurance, there's no penalty for not having insurance. Unless you're in pain, you have an idea what your procedures over the next year will look like so you could game the system (though it looks like dental policies are adjusting to that strategy, with increasing payouts or requiring you to wait 12+ months for certain kinds of work)
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  If you had the choice between a 0% interest payment plan ($300/12 mo) for 2 cleanings with added 80-90% discounts for literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 $150 cleanings with no discounts for anything else you might need the rest of the year why would you choose to pay OOP even if your employer does not pay for dental insurance? I fail to see how this is a raw financial deal for consumers.

eloff 9y ago

None of which has any bearing on whether dental insurance is worthwhile vs paying out of pocket.

dawhizkid 9y ago
Are you speaking as a consumer? Dental insurance is really cheap...it's like $300/year. Many employers cover all or most of this cost if you get it through a company. If you pay 100% of your premium and have 2 regular cleanings, it's basically a payment plan. If you require any other services (deep cleaning for example) then it would definitely be cheaper to pay for insurance than OOP.
- TylerE 9y ago
  I'm guessing you're not in the US? Here, the polices have VERY low lifetime caps. One root canal can wipe it out. Other than that, it's basically prepaying for an annual cleaning.
  - dawhizkid 9y ago
    Yes I'm in the US. Lifetime caps are generally for ortho and implants. I've not heard of a lifetime cap on root canals but maybe this varies by insurance company. Again, yes if you only get cleanings then it's a payment plan...from a customer POV why would you not prefer a 0% interest payment plan with added protection in case you need literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 cleanings a year?
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      > from a customer POV why would you not prefer a 0% interest payment plan with added protection in case you need literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 cleanings a year? I also see it like retirement savings. You're more likely to forgo the expense if it hasn't already been taken out
  - ghaff 9y ago
    It varies. I have calendar year maximums and some other limits but no lifetime maximum. This is US. (ADDED: Oh, right. I think there is an ortho lifetime max.)
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    My plan covers basic work (which includes root canals) at 80%, major work (like implants and crowns) at 50%, up to $1500/year. This is at a cost of about $350/year, so it's definitely more than just low-cost cleanings. (I can't find information on limits, but I'm not sure they apply, since I pay any amount over the 80% or $1500 a year)
    - nickjj 9y ago
      The problem with major work is it's substantially more than $1,500. A single dental implant from end to end in the US is usually in the $4,000 to $5,000 range.
      - bdcravens 9y ago
        Of course. Unless you get a discount for not having insurance, that's $1500 (minus annual premiums) less than you would have spent.
      - pravda 9y ago
        >A single dental implant from end to end in the US is usually in the $4,000 to $5,000 range. Huh? It is much cheaper then that. About half that.
        nickjj 9y ago
        That includes both the surgery and the crown. A Lot of places quote $4,000 as being the average. I'm sure you could get it cheaper if you went to a University. Keep in mind those prices don't include additional things like extracting your original tooth, bone grafting if you happen to need it, or getting sedated (because who would want to go through that with just novocain). It can get really expensive.
bdcravens 9y ago
If all you do is cleaning, probably not, more so if you aren't diligent about your visits. However, if you know you need work done, it is cost effective over paying full price. (many plans cover $500-$1500 of work each year, and cost an individual about $300-400/year)
- eloff 9y ago
  That's rubbish. How do you think their business model works? They make enough to pay your procedure, plus all their overhead, plus return a profit to their shareholders - all out of your premiums. Unless you have reason to believe you're going to require many times more procedures than the average person, it's a waste of money. With health insurance it's very different, because if you get unlucky it could bankrupt you. A $500-$1500 dental bill is only marginally more than a years premiums, and you won't be needing to pay that every year. It only makes sense if your employer pays it as a benefit. EDIT I missed the "if you know you need work done" part, or it was added afterward. Clearly if there's no limitations on pre-existing conditions AND no requirement that you maintain the policy for at least N years AND you know you need work done, then it may well make sense temporarily. It's just math, and you have to do the math and read all the fine print. But without that asymmetric "insider knowledge" that you need work, or that you will need substantially more work than the average, you're expected return will be negative.
  - kbutler 9y ago
    bdcravens said "if you know you need work done, it is cost effective over paying full price" and eloff tried to contradict by saying it's rubbish unless you know you need more than average. Agreed, dental insurance tends to be more like pre-payment, but if you do the math and it works out (and there aren't limitations on pre-existing conditions!) it can be a good option even on an individual basis.
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      Worth noting that unlike health insurance, there's no penalty for not having insurance. Unless you're in pain, you have an idea what your procedures over the next year will look like so you could game the system (though it looks like dental policies are adjusting to that strategy, with increasing payouts or requiring you to wait 12+ months for certain kinds of work)
dawhizkid 9y ago
If you had the choice between a 0% interest payment plan ($300/12 mo) for 2 cleanings with added 80-90% discounts for literally any other dental service vs paying OOP for 2 $150 cleanings with no discounts for anything else you might need the rest of the year why would you choose to pay OOP even if your employer does not pay for dental insurance? I fail to see how this is a raw financial deal for consumers.