16 ms·

Founder who lived with bipolar for years started a company to tackle the stigma

82 points by marojejian 9y ago

bpchaps 9y ago
Good. The stigma around bipolar is absolute hell for those of us who have it. Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with friends, family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even possible. Just mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but everyone has a mental health disorder!" to change the subject. Hopefully the social stigma around even discussing mental health will go away in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath.
- zafka 9y ago
  I am not holding my breather either, but there are some pretty big companies getting behind reducing the stigma.
- phkahler 9y ago
  >> Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with friends, family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even possible. Just mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but everyone has a mental health disorder!" to change the subject. I'm wondering what the stigma is. From what you said people don't make a big deal of it and may even be dismissive. Or are you saying they refuse to acknowledge it as a problem and change the subject? While not helpful, it's not making fun of you either. I know people who are bipolar and the only people I've seen who think much negative about that are the people who have it. Perhaps my observations are missing something major? Are people actually hard on those with bipolar? How does the stigma manifest? I feel like I'm really ignorant about something here.
  - dindumuffin 9y ago
    If mental illnesses are underdiagnosed, then it might be that the majority of the population could have some kind of disorder of varying scales on any spectrum. With how many different things can go wrong with our complex neurologies combined with tens of milennia of racial inbreeding it'd be surprising for anyone to have completely spotless mental health, just as few men and women are blessed with perfect bodily health free of rashes and allergies and proportional assymetries. Personally, I have a variety of brain related disorders which I must contend with on a daily basis but also make me good at spotting others with my experience across anbroad range of symtpoms. So when someone says to me "everyone has a mental health disorder" I just assume that they have a mental disorder and agree with them.
    - phkahler 9y ago
      >> So when someone says to me "everyone has a mental health disorder" I just assume that they have a mental disorder and agree with them. I totally agree with this. If there's no one around you might even say "yeah, wanna share, what's yours?" "There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who have faced their issues and are a work in progress, and those who have not." Yeah yeah, projection, black and white, all-or-nothing, splitting, etc... It's still a fun thing to say.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - xor1 9y ago
    >I'm wondering what the stigma is. I think a major part of the stigma is people thinking that borderline personality disorder and bipolar are the same thing, primarily because they have the same acronym. As a result, people wrongly associate Cluster B symptoms/behavior with bipolar.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
marojejian 9y ago
FYI - I am Daniel's co-founder, if you have any questions on Campfire or whatev's.
- bipolarengineer 9y ago
  Thanks for posting the article. I have been a software engineer for 15 years who has been struggling with issues due to being bipolar (and undiagnosed until a year ago). I've had a hard time accepting my diagnosis but have taken steps as of late to start moving forward with treatment. The few people who have found out that I am bipolar (and who don't know me well) claim that I am making up my illness as I seem fine on the surface. I think certain people believe that I am not bipolar because I am a skilled engineer (obviously anyone with the ability to reason knows this makes no sense). Certain family members have cut me off after the diagnosis as well. The poor reactions I've had are forcing me to keep silent about my issues, so I'm glad to see other people coming out with theirs.
- limeblack 9y ago
  In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.
  - have_faith 9y ago
    Agreed to be over-diagnosed by who? (genuinely curious)
    - limeblack 9y ago
      Many top psychologists have come out suggested ADHD is overdiagnosised. The are numerous articles about the explosion of diagnosis[1]. [1]: http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201605/adhd-is-overdiagnosed-heres-proof%3famp http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201605/...
al_chemist 9y ago
> This Founder Lived with Bipolar for Years. Today His Company Tackles the Stigma Click-bait title
- dang 9y ago
  We've reworded it.
seibelj 9y ago
My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme. My psychiatrists have flirted with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety / depression. Every few months I go through a week where I barely sleep, my mind is racing, work nonstop, empathy decreases, basically feel on top of the world. And similar every few months I will have a week where I can barely get out of bed, no motivation, apathetic, can barely focus. I have mechanisms learned to deal with both situations and it has very little effect on my life. I can recognize it and so does my wife. So does this mean I’m bipolar? “Minorly bipolar?” Psychiatrist diagnoses do not have true tests. They get made based on observations and written tests. It’s useful to give things names, but mental health in general is very weird and unpredictable. Drugs work but doctors have to theorize as to why they work. I know this is unrelated to the company in the article, but maybe this post is useful to the discussion / someone experiencing similar things.
- bipolarengineer 9y ago
  > My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme if you read about the symptoms of bipolar disorder you will see that it is a bit more complex than this. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index.shtml#part_145404 http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index... Take a look at the list of manic / depressive episode symptoms. Every single one of those applies to me in a very extreme way - i have been hospitalized once and believe i am going to be again soon as i feel very similar currently as i did in the past. Edit: oh also forgot to mention - i appear to be the kind of bipolar which comes with a touch of psychosis... its definitely more complex than the minor ups and downs of a normal person. second edit: yes you sound bipolar and should probably get it under control because its pretty much wrecking my life now and had i not ignored the signs / knew what to look for earlier in life i would be in better shape right now.
  - ModernMech 9y ago
    Sleep. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep is the key. I cannot stress that enough. Sleep and schedule. Wake up at the same time every day, no. matter. what. Don't stay out late just cause it's the weekend, don't go out partying just cause your friends are. Don't pull an all-nighter just to get an A on a test or meet a deadline. Once your sleep gets out of whack, a manic bout is not far behind, and that's 6+ months of your life turned into chaos. If you find yourself staying up all night, unable to sleep, that should be a huge warning sign. I speak from experience. Lots of it.
golemiprague 9y ago
Bi polar is just a meme these days, every second woman decides that she is "bi polar" which is just a way to justify their general childish behaviour and lack of accountability. That's why it is always refreshing to hear about bi polar men, they seems to be the real deal.
baus 9y ago
I am glad to see this topic being approached openly on HN. I was diagnosed a few years ago after a series of life changing episodes which eventually lead to my hospitalization. This has significantly effected my life. There are no easy solutions, and like many people I've found the treatment at times to be as bad as the symptoms. I think the idea of campfire is a good one, and will probably give it a try. In the meantime, I'm always open for to discuss the topic if anyone wants to contact me directly.
- dindumuffin 9y ago
  Have you tried weed or CBD supplements? It helped with my bipolar and levelling my emotions to deal with a job and daily life.
aoner 9y ago
I have a friend that is recently diagnosed with a bipolar disorder (he just had a hypomanic episode followed by a psychosis). So I think he should be hospitalized to learn more about his bipolar disorder. The problem is that if he wants to be hospitalized, he needs to take medication (which he is hesitant about). The care is really good and includes psychiatrists. I’d love to hear people’s opinion with a bipolar disorder on using medication. When do you recommend it and what do you recommend? What would you recommend my friend to do?
- bipolarengineer 9y ago
  your friend should definitely seek professional help. all i can do is share my own experience: when this happened to me a family member drove me to the hospital and suggested that i check myself in. i filled out paperwork, answered some questions and signed myself in. then the "fun" began. i was taken to a room where an armed guard watched the door. I was given a robe and they took my wallet and clothes while I waited in a room with a large glass window. in the room across from me was another guy and he was completely losing his shit -- screaming and pounding on the walls. That first experience felt what i imagine jail feels like and due to my state of mind i was convinced that my family had tricked me and put me in jail. i was very confused and started having a panic attack. eventually i was lead to a room with several hospital beds where i was given a sedative and went to sleep. later i was lead upstairs, had my face photographed and printed out for a folder. then i was taken to another room where i had to get naked while two male nurses watched and checked me for birth marks and tattoos. thankfully i was given a single room for the first few days and could keep to myself because i don't do well with others in situations like these. everything else was pretty much what i expected. i mainly sat around in the rec room on drugs playing cards and chess with the other patients and nurses. there were several homeless guys in there, some people that seemed to be scamming, terrible food, and a really loud television. They have group shave / haircut sessions, group therapy (which included dancing and some other stuff). Honestly it didn't really help me cope with my newly discovered mental illness, it just made me feel like i had hit rock bottom. i was given a pile of drugs and sent on my way. the therapist i was assigned to was extremely amateur and his solution for me was "phone apps". The psychiatrist i was assigned to was very hung up on me not doing street drugs (i don't). none of these humans attempted to get much story about my current life situation or past. they heard me ramble off a bunch of crazy shit and then decided their pre-scripted solutions were best for me, and when it doesn't work then the blame is thrown back on me. very very frustrating process.
throwaway2501 9y ago
Wow! This thread (not the article) has got me questioning if I am in fact bipolar. Up until recently my diagnosis has been depression, but after reading the highs and lows others here experience, it looks more and more like what I in fact go through - and it makes sense, as I usually only see a therapist while depressed, and usually stop when I "feel better", which usually only lasts a few weeks or months. That might explain why it's never been caught. Up until reading the comments here, I didn't realize that when I feel "normal"/not depressed, it might actually be a mania swing. I feel great, like happy for no reason, I work extended hours without noticing (14-16 hour days). I'm crazy hyper, and during these times are when I express my opinions (usually at work) and piss a lot of people off. These phases are also usually when I actually go out to meet people and/or hookup with women. When I feel like this is usually when I quit a job without considering I have no savings, or how hard it might be to get a new job quick. I day dream about a life outside of software, living in the wild and by myself. I never put 2 and 2 together, but following these super productive weeks is usually a hard swing into depression - the kind where I can barely work at all, and really struggle to get out of bed, take care of my kids, eat, or shower. The downswing into depression usually lasts much longer than the upswing where I feel wonderful, or at least it feels that way. And the entire time I'm wishing I could feel good again like I did the week before when I had no problems working or taking care of myself. Someone here mentioned a daily mood diary - that's a brilliant idea! I'm going to start tracking my moods and see if I can graph a pattern out of them, or at least be able to tell when swings are coming so I can be prepared for them. I have really bad anxiety, and the constant back and forth really takes its toll on me, which deepens my depression to the point where I've thought about ending it all, but haven't because I have children that need me - but every now and then for 1/4 of a second a quick fantasy of dying will fly through my mind when I'm at a location where it's actually possible to do so - for example hiking to the top of a mountain not but a few weeks ago, taking in the view, and for a brief moment had the urge to just jump off the side onto the rocks below. It scared the shit out of me!

82 points by marojejian 9y ago

Good. The stigma around bipolar is absolute hell for those of us who have it. Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with friends, family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even possible. Just mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but everyone has a mental health disorder!" to change the subject. Hopefully the social stigma around even discussing mental health will go away in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath.

zafka 9y ago
I am not holding my breather either, but there are some pretty big companies getting behind reducing the stigma.
phkahler 9y ago
>> Having rational and largely unemotional conversations about it with friends, family and co-workers is a near constant struggle, when even possible. Just mentioning it is enough to get responses like, "Yeah, but everyone has a mental health disorder!" to change the subject. I'm wondering what the stigma is. From what you said people don't make a big deal of it and may even be dismissive. Or are you saying they refuse to acknowledge it as a problem and change the subject? While not helpful, it's not making fun of you either. I know people who are bipolar and the only people I've seen who think much negative about that are the people who have it. Perhaps my observations are missing something major? Are people actually hard on those with bipolar? How does the stigma manifest? I feel like I'm really ignorant about something here.
- dindumuffin 9y ago
  If mental illnesses are underdiagnosed, then it might be that the majority of the population could have some kind of disorder of varying scales on any spectrum. With how many different things can go wrong with our complex neurologies combined with tens of milennia of racial inbreeding it'd be surprising for anyone to have completely spotless mental health, just as few men and women are blessed with perfect bodily health free of rashes and allergies and proportional assymetries. Personally, I have a variety of brain related disorders which I must contend with on a daily basis but also make me good at spotting others with my experience across anbroad range of symtpoms. So when someone says to me "everyone has a mental health disorder" I just assume that they have a mental disorder and agree with them.
  - phkahler 9y ago
    >> So when someone says to me "everyone has a mental health disorder" I just assume that they have a mental disorder and agree with them. I totally agree with this. If there's no one around you might even say "yeah, wanna share, what's yours?" "There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who have faced their issues and are a work in progress, and those who have not." Yeah yeah, projection, black and white, all-or-nothing, splitting, etc... It's still a fun thing to say.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- xor1 9y ago
  >I'm wondering what the stigma is. I think a major part of the stigma is people thinking that borderline personality disorder and bipolar are the same thing, primarily because they have the same acronym. As a result, people wrongly associate Cluster B symptoms/behavior with bipolar.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

marojejian 9y ago

FYI - I am Daniel's co-founder, if you have any questions on Campfire or whatev's.

bipolarengineer 9y ago
Thanks for posting the article. I have been a software engineer for 15 years who has been struggling with issues due to being bipolar (and undiagnosed until a year ago). I've had a hard time accepting my diagnosis but have taken steps as of late to start moving forward with treatment. The few people who have found out that I am bipolar (and who don't know me well) claim that I am making up my illness as I seem fine on the surface. I think certain people believe that I am not bipolar because I am a skilled engineer (obviously anyone with the ability to reason knows this makes no sense). Certain family members have cut me off after the diagnosis as well. The poor reactions I've had are forcing me to keep silent about my issues, so I'm glad to see other people coming out with theirs.
limeblack 9y ago
In the same way that ADHD is very much agreed to be over diagnosed, do you believe bipolar might also be over diagnosed? I have seen family members conditions worsen after treatment(which may just be a coincidence), or maybe the inadequacy and/or causation of treatment.
- have_faith 9y ago
  Agreed to be over-diagnosed by who? (genuinely curious)
  - limeblack 9y ago
    Many top psychologists have come out suggested ADHD is overdiagnosised. The are numerous articles about the explosion of diagnosis[1]. [1]: http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201605/adhd-is-overdiagnosed-heres-proof%3famp http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201605/...

al_chemist 9y ago

> This Founder Lived with Bipolar for Years. Today His Company Tackles the Stigma Click-bait title

dang 9y ago
We've reworded it.

seibelj 9y ago

My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme. My psychiatrists have flirted with a bipolar diagnosis but ultimately they think it’s standard anxiety / depression. Every few months I go through a week where I barely sleep, my mind is racing, work nonstop, empathy decreases, basically feel on top of the world. And similar every few months I will have a week where I can barely get out of bed, no motivation, apathetic, can barely focus. I have mechanisms learned to deal with both situations and it has very little effect on my life. I can recognize it and so does my wife. So does this mean I’m bipolar? “Minorly bipolar?” Psychiatrist diagnoses do not have true tests. They get made based on observations and written tests. It’s useful to give things names, but mental health in general is very weird and unpredictable. Drugs work but doctors have to theorize as to why they work. I know this is unrelated to the company in the article, but maybe this post is useful to the discussion / someone experiencing similar things.

bipolarengineer 9y ago
> My belief is that everyone has minor bouts of mania and depression, and bipolar people just experience it more extreme if you read about the symptoms of bipolar disorder you will see that it is a bit more complex than this. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index.shtml#part_145404 http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/index... Take a look at the list of manic / depressive episode symptoms. Every single one of those applies to me in a very extreme way - i have been hospitalized once and believe i am going to be again soon as i feel very similar currently as i did in the past. Edit: oh also forgot to mention - i appear to be the kind of bipolar which comes with a touch of psychosis... its definitely more complex than the minor ups and downs of a normal person. second edit: yes you sound bipolar and should probably get it under control because its pretty much wrecking my life now and had i not ignored the signs / knew what to look for earlier in life i would be in better shape right now.
- ModernMech 9y ago
  Sleep. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep is the key. I cannot stress that enough. Sleep and schedule. Wake up at the same time every day, no. matter. what. Don't stay out late just cause it's the weekend, don't go out partying just cause your friends are. Don't pull an all-nighter just to get an A on a test or meet a deadline. Once your sleep gets out of whack, a manic bout is not far behind, and that's 6+ months of your life turned into chaos. If you find yourself staying up all night, unable to sleep, that should be a huge warning sign. I speak from experience. Lots of it.

golemiprague 9y ago

Bi polar is just a meme these days, every second woman decides that she is "bi polar" which is just a way to justify their general childish behaviour and lack of accountability. That's why it is always refreshing to hear about bi polar men, they seems to be the real deal.

baus 9y ago

I am glad to see this topic being approached openly on HN. I was diagnosed a few years ago after a series of life changing episodes which eventually lead to my hospitalization. This has significantly effected my life. There are no easy solutions, and like many people I've found the treatment at times to be as bad as the symptoms. I think the idea of campfire is a good one, and will probably give it a try. In the meantime, I'm always open for to discuss the topic if anyone wants to contact me directly.

dindumuffin 9y ago
Have you tried weed or CBD supplements? It helped with my bipolar and levelling my emotions to deal with a job and daily life.

aoner 9y ago

I have a friend that is recently diagnosed with a bipolar disorder (he just had a hypomanic episode followed by a psychosis). So I think he should be hospitalized to learn more about his bipolar disorder. The problem is that if he wants to be hospitalized, he needs to take medication (which he is hesitant about). The care is really good and includes psychiatrists. I’d love to hear people’s opinion with a bipolar disorder on using medication. When do you recommend it and what do you recommend? What would you recommend my friend to do?

bipolarengineer 9y ago
your friend should definitely seek professional help. all i can do is share my own experience: when this happened to me a family member drove me to the hospital and suggested that i check myself in. i filled out paperwork, answered some questions and signed myself in. then the "fun" began. i was taken to a room where an armed guard watched the door. I was given a robe and they took my wallet and clothes while I waited in a room with a large glass window. in the room across from me was another guy and he was completely losing his shit -- screaming and pounding on the walls. That first experience felt what i imagine jail feels like and due to my state of mind i was convinced that my family had tricked me and put me in jail. i was very confused and started having a panic attack. eventually i was lead to a room with several hospital beds where i was given a sedative and went to sleep. later i was lead upstairs, had my face photographed and printed out for a folder. then i was taken to another room where i had to get naked while two male nurses watched and checked me for birth marks and tattoos. thankfully i was given a single room for the first few days and could keep to myself because i don't do well with others in situations like these. everything else was pretty much what i expected. i mainly sat around in the rec room on drugs playing cards and chess with the other patients and nurses. there were several homeless guys in there, some people that seemed to be scamming, terrible food, and a really loud television. They have group shave / haircut sessions, group therapy (which included dancing and some other stuff). Honestly it didn't really help me cope with my newly discovered mental illness, it just made me feel like i had hit rock bottom. i was given a pile of drugs and sent on my way. the therapist i was assigned to was extremely amateur and his solution for me was "phone apps". The psychiatrist i was assigned to was very hung up on me not doing street drugs (i don't). none of these humans attempted to get much story about my current life situation or past. they heard me ramble off a bunch of crazy shit and then decided their pre-scripted solutions were best for me, and when it doesn't work then the blame is thrown back on me. very very frustrating process.

throwaway2501 9y ago

Wow! This thread (not the article) has got me questioning if I am in fact bipolar. Up until recently my diagnosis has been depression, but after reading the highs and lows others here experience, it looks more and more like what I in fact go through - and it makes sense, as I usually only see a therapist while depressed, and usually stop when I "feel better", which usually only lasts a few weeks or months. That might explain why it's never been caught. Up until reading the comments here, I didn't realize that when I feel "normal"/not depressed, it might actually be a mania swing. I feel great, like happy for no reason, I work extended hours without noticing (14-16 hour days). I'm crazy hyper, and during these times are when I express my opinions (usually at work) and piss a lot of people off. These phases are also usually when I actually go out to meet people and/or hookup with women. When I feel like this is usually when I quit a job without considering I have no savings, or how hard it might be to get a new job quick. I day dream about a life outside of software, living in the wild and by myself. I never put 2 and 2 together, but following these super productive weeks is usually a hard swing into depression - the kind where I can barely work at all, and really struggle to get out of bed, take care of my kids, eat, or shower. The downswing into depression usually lasts much longer than the upswing where I feel wonderful, or at least it feels that way. And the entire time I'm wishing I could feel good again like I did the week before when I had no problems working or taking care of myself. Someone here mentioned a daily mood diary - that's a brilliant idea! I'm going to start tracking my moods and see if I can graph a pattern out of them, or at least be able to tell when swings are coming so I can be prepared for them. I have really bad anxiety, and the constant back and forth really takes its toll on me, which deepens my depression to the point where I've thought about ending it all, but haven't because I have children that need me - but every now and then for 1/4 of a second a quick fantasy of dying will fly through my mind when I'm at a location where it's actually possible to do so - for example hiking to the top of a mountain not but a few weeks ago, taking in the view, and for a brief moment had the urge to just jump off the side onto the rocks below. It scared the shit out of me!