5 ms·

I always find the “make it this size and you’ll rule the world” quote interesting. The users I know who really love their iPads/tablets are closer to @alankay1’

by gok 9y ago

I always find the “make it this size and you’ll rule the world” quote interesting. The users I know who really love their iPads/tablets are closer to @alankay1’s generation. Younger generations don’t have much use for device that can’t fit in a pocket. I wonder how much the interest in iPad-sized devices came from years of using paper about that size.

jasonkostempski 9y ago
"Younger generations don’t have much use for device that can’t fit in a pocket." They do when they're trying to create something more complicated than a social media post.
- GuiA 9y ago
  I know students who have written essays, put together presentations, etc solely on their phones. If you really believe that the only thing “younger generations” do is post on social media, I suggest you spend more time around high schoolers (for example), particularly those with limited financial means.
  - da02 9y ago
    What were the titles of those essays? I'm curious what people are writing about.
    - bnj 9y ago
      One of my students submitted an essay today entitled "On 'Democracy' and How Humans Lie" which was written entirely on their phone about inequality in the US
  - jasonkostempski 9y ago
    I phrased my comment specifically trying to avoid sounding like I was saying that's the only thing they do. Guess I didn't do it right. It's awesome that those with limited funds can still get stuff done, and phones are great for consuming information, but I don't think there's much argument against the efficiency gain that hardware keyboards, mice and larger screens with multiple windows give when you get into things that require fine tuning and multi-tasking like drawing, coding and video editing.
    - firmgently 9y ago
      It read fine to me. I didn't read any implication that young people don't do anything more complicated than social media posts - only that when do they could use a larger device. (sorry I know posts like this don't make interesting reading, I just know how frustrating it can be when you put effort into writing something to avoid being misunderstood but still get taken the wrong way... so wanted to point out that at least for this reader the negative connotation was not there)
  - underwater 9y ago
    I can’t imagine writing something much more substantial than a couple of paragraphs. Typing is fine, but editing is so slow without a mouse.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Man, imagine what editing was like in the typewriter era! I assure you, I got good at not needing as much editing. Two drafts and done.
      - jasonkostempski 9y ago
        Until Mike Nesmith's mother changed the world :) But even then, trying to realign using that red line hovering half an inch off the surface of the paper made the mistakes obvious :/
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Here, how a kid in Africa used a Nokia feature phone doing T9 typing, before he could eventually get a job doing Android development. https://hanselminutes.com/615/developing-on-not-for-a-nokia-feature-phone-with-elvis-chidera https://hanselminutes.com/615/developing-on-not-for-a-nokia-...
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Limited financial means is the key here. A decent smartphone costs as much as a lower-end computer; for kids, there's a good chance it was either-or proposition in terms of which device they get to own (instead of sharing with family). Reminds me of a friend who, few years ago, was a teenager of limited financial means. He earned his first real $50 through a phone. His laptop broke, and he didn't have anyone to borrow one from in time, so he ssh'd into a remote machine from his phone and did the work (some data wrangling task) this way. Where there's a will, there's a way. But still, that in no way suggests phones are good at text editing or productive work. They're capable enough, if you have lots of will and no other option.
jaysonelliot 9y ago
The iPad that could rule the world hasn't been made yet. Once iOS and OS X completely merge, then we'll see. It's sized for creating things, but running the OS of a device made for consuming things.
- bdr 9y ago
  Is it the OS or the input?
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  It has been, it's called Microsoft Surface. It's sized for creating things and is running on the OS made for productive work. But it's expensive and made by a company that's not very much liked by people.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Well, the thing about liking Microsoft is pretty much regional, just like Apple's or Google's love.
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    It also has bad reviews and details like that really matter.
  - jaysonelliot 9y ago
    That's an excellent point. It's funny how Microsoft has a reputation for making poor copies of things, but that hasn't really been the case for 20 years. They're often the ones to innovate now. Sadly, they don't seem to be able to get the traction with their innovations that they once did with their copies.
hyperpallium 9y ago
Fitting in a pocket is a great advantage for a portable device, to everyone. The market seems to be saying: if I need something that I have to lug around, I might as well have a keyboard. i.e. a laptop. Another effect is people are doing everything they can on a phone, because of the convenience. This leads to slightly larger phones every year, and now a 5.5" phone is no longer considered a "phablet", and apple is rumoured to having a 6.5" phone next (their smallest tablet is 7"). So... tablets will rule the world, but they'll be "phones". The barrier to adaption was changing consumer behaviour... as always.
- shurcooL 9y ago
  I agree. I've been using an iPad mini with Cellular as my phone-replacement mobile device since the day iPad mini came out. It fits in my pocket (not as comfortably as a phone, but well enough). My only other device is a 15" MBP. To be more accurate, the iPad mini is 7.9", not 7" though. And 4:3 aspect ratio. So in area, it's still much bigger than a 6.5" 16+:9 phone would be.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  iOS and Android turn tablets into oversized phones, so no surprise they lose against phones - they have the same (or usually worse, at a given price point) capabilities while being larger, thus less convenient to carry and more fragile. These days I'm not using much Windows for desktop (HN took over the time I had for games), but I do sincerely hope this OS will live on for at least couple more years, because Microsoft is the only company that knows how to do tablets. Seriously. A proper operating system, with real capabilities and proper user interface that can make use of the tablet form, makes a world of a difference. And I say that as someone who owned a decent Android tablet in the past. As someone who's friends and family with people owning currently decent Android tablets. My little Windows 10 el-cheapo tablet/netbook I picked up second-hand for ~$130 is much more useful than the top-of-the-line Samsung tablet offering. Hell, it already earned me many times more than its own value back, as it's good enough to do some meaningful dev work on the bus/train.
  - icc97 9y ago

by gok 9y ago

jasonkostempski 9y ago

"Younger generations don’t have much use for device that can’t fit in a pocket." They do when they're trying to create something more complicated than a social media post.

GuiA 9y ago
I know students who have written essays, put together presentations, etc solely on their phones. If you really believe that the only thing “younger generations” do is post on social media, I suggest you spend more time around high schoolers (for example), particularly those with limited financial means.
- da02 9y ago
  What were the titles of those essays? I'm curious what people are writing about.
  - bnj 9y ago
    One of my students submitted an essay today entitled "On 'Democracy' and How Humans Lie" which was written entirely on their phone about inequality in the US
- jasonkostempski 9y ago
  I phrased my comment specifically trying to avoid sounding like I was saying that's the only thing they do. Guess I didn't do it right. It's awesome that those with limited funds can still get stuff done, and phones are great for consuming information, but I don't think there's much argument against the efficiency gain that hardware keyboards, mice and larger screens with multiple windows give when you get into things that require fine tuning and multi-tasking like drawing, coding and video editing.
  - firmgently 9y ago
    It read fine to me. I didn't read any implication that young people don't do anything more complicated than social media posts - only that when do they could use a larger device. (sorry I know posts like this don't make interesting reading, I just know how frustrating it can be when you put effort into writing something to avoid being misunderstood but still get taken the wrong way... so wanted to point out that at least for this reader the negative connotation was not there)
- underwater 9y ago
  I can’t imagine writing something much more substantial than a couple of paragraphs. Typing is fine, but editing is so slow without a mouse.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Man, imagine what editing was like in the typewriter era! I assure you, I got good at not needing as much editing. Two drafts and done.
    - jasonkostempski 9y ago
      Until Mike Nesmith's mother changed the world :) But even then, trying to realign using that red line hovering half an inch off the surface of the paper made the mistakes obvious :/
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Here, how a kid in Africa used a Nokia feature phone doing T9 typing, before he could eventually get a job doing Android development. https://hanselminutes.com/615/developing-on-not-for-a-nokia-feature-phone-with-elvis-chidera https://hanselminutes.com/615/developing-on-not-for-a-nokia-...
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Limited financial means is the key here. A decent smartphone costs as much as a lower-end computer; for kids, there's a good chance it was either-or proposition in terms of which device they get to own (instead of sharing with family). Reminds me of a friend who, few years ago, was a teenager of limited financial means. He earned his first real $50 through a phone. His laptop broke, and he didn't have anyone to borrow one from in time, so he ssh'd into a remote machine from his phone and did the work (some data wrangling task) this way. Where there's a will, there's a way. But still, that in no way suggests phones are good at text editing or productive work. They're capable enough, if you have lots of will and no other option.

jaysonelliot 9y ago

The iPad that could rule the world hasn't been made yet. Once iOS and OS X completely merge, then we'll see. It's sized for creating things, but running the OS of a device made for consuming things.

bdr 9y ago
Is it the OS or the input?
TeMPOraL 9y ago
It has been, it's called Microsoft Surface. It's sized for creating things and is running on the OS made for productive work. But it's expensive and made by a company that's not very much liked by people.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Well, the thing about liking Microsoft is pretty much regional, just like Apple's or Google's love.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  It also has bad reviews and details like that really matter.
- jaysonelliot 9y ago
  That's an excellent point. It's funny how Microsoft has a reputation for making poor copies of things, but that hasn't really been the case for 20 years. They're often the ones to innovate now. Sadly, they don't seem to be able to get the traction with their innovations that they once did with their copies.

hyperpallium 9y ago

Fitting in a pocket is a great advantage for a portable device, to everyone. The market seems to be saying: if I need something that I have to lug around, I might as well have a keyboard. i.e. a laptop. Another effect is people are doing everything they can on a phone, because of the convenience. This leads to slightly larger phones every year, and now a 5.5" phone is no longer considered a "phablet", and apple is rumoured to having a 6.5" phone next (their smallest tablet is 7"). So... tablets will rule the world, but they'll be "phones". The barrier to adaption was changing consumer behaviour... as always.

shurcooL 9y ago
I agree. I've been using an iPad mini with Cellular as my phone-replacement mobile device since the day iPad mini came out. It fits in my pocket (not as comfortably as a phone, but well enough). My only other device is a 15" MBP. To be more accurate, the iPad mini is 7.9", not 7" though. And 4:3 aspect ratio. So in area, it's still much bigger than a 6.5" 16+:9 phone would be.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
iOS and Android turn tablets into oversized phones, so no surprise they lose against phones - they have the same (or usually worse, at a given price point) capabilities while being larger, thus less convenient to carry and more fragile. These days I'm not using much Windows for desktop (HN took over the time I had for games), but I do sincerely hope this OS will live on for at least couple more years, because Microsoft is the only company that knows how to do tablets. Seriously. A proper operating system, with real capabilities and proper user interface that can make use of the tablet form, makes a world of a difference. And I say that as someone who owned a decent Android tablet in the past. As someone who's friends and family with people owning currently decent Android tablets. My little Windows 10 el-cheapo tablet/netbook I picked up second-hand for ~$130 is much more useful than the top-of-the-line Samsung tablet offering. Hell, it already earned me many times more than its own value back, as it's good enough to do some meaningful dev work on the bus/train.
- icc97 9y ago