4 ms·

Gmail intentionally deviates from the IMAP spec, forcing email clients to either become Gmail clients or work poorly with Gmail. They refuse to support IMAP pus

by twhb 8y ago

Gmail intentionally deviates from the IMAP spec, forcing email clients to either become Gmail clients or work poorly with Gmail. They refuse to support IMAP push, instead saving push for the Gmail API. Recently they introduced AMP for Email, which happens to work via emails that only Gmail can read. Now they introduce another feature which happens to work via emails that only Gmail can read. I think it's pretty clear what's going on here. By the way, FastMail's work at the protocol level - http://jmap.io/ http://jmap.io/ - is open source, and being standardized by the IETF.

tspike 8y ago
I'd long ago deleted my Facebook account, but the #deletefacebook push did strengthen my resolve enough to finally move my Gmail over to Fastmail. No regrets.
- app4soft 8y ago
  > to Fastmail While Fastmail at this moment look much better than other mail services, nobody know what Fastmail (or any other service) could do with your correspondence tomorrow. There is cool sample flowchart[0] created using Dia[1]: "Should I encrypt my email?"[2] [0] http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/index.html.en http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/index.html.en [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia_(software) [2] http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/images/Flowchart.png http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/images/Flowchart.pn...
paxys 8y ago
That's because Push-IMAP was abandoned a long time ago and isn't even part of the standard. Every provider out there (Microsoft with Exchange ActiveSync, Apple's MobileMe and iCloud push, Yahoo, and others) has their own push mechanism. FastMail itself is using something non-standard, and saying it is open source and "being standardized" means nothing. See https://xkcd.com/927 https://xkcd.com/927.
- iforgotpassword 8y ago
  At least they're trying to be as transparent as possible, and working with the ietf certainly gives it some additional legitimacy. Google as usual just goes the "we're big enough, so accept it or go fuck yourself" way. They're the new Microsoft of the 90s, only much worse.
- nmjenkins 8y ago
  (Editor of the JMAP spec here.) We at FastMail are using standard IMAP/POP/SMTP, which we offer to all our customers to access their email. In addition, we have invested a large amount of time and resources in R&D to design a next-generation client-server sync protocol based on our deep experience with email. While we could just use this ourselves, we believe an open internet built on standards is healthiest for everyone in the long run. That's why, once we felt we had a solid foundation, we took this work to the IETF where a working group was formed. The spec has evolved considerably since then based on the feedback of many other experts in email from both the open-source and commercial world of email vendors. The spec is now nearly complete and we expect standards-track RFCs to be published later this year. Adoption will then happen slowly over time, as it did with IMAP. Smaller, more nimble companies are likely to move first and then larger companies following later. IMAP took many years to get widespread adoption; I hope we can make the move to JMAP a bit faster, but these things always take time (often measured in years!) to develop, test and release. I love XKCD as much as the next guy, and of course it's kind-of right, but also too cynical: the only other alternative is to not make an effort at all, and accept the status quo is the best you can hope for. We'd like to do better than that. If we fail, at least we know we tried.
mankash666 8y ago
Gmail is a for profit unit of Google. They'll do what they best think they can monetise. Given the surfeit of standards compliant email available, switching to another provider is trivial
rakoo 8y ago
> They refuse to support IMAP push, instead saving push for the Gmail API What are you talking about ? The IDLE command is completely supported and I'm using it in my mail client with no issues at all.

by twhb 8y ago

tspike 8y ago

I'd long ago deleted my Facebook account, but the #deletefacebook push did strengthen my resolve enough to finally move my Gmail over to Fastmail. No regrets.

app4soft 8y ago
> to Fastmail While Fastmail at this moment look much better than other mail services, nobody know what Fastmail (or any other service) could do with your correspondence tomorrow. There is cool sample flowchart[0] created using Dia[1]: "Should I encrypt my email?"[2] [0] http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/index.html.en http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/index.html.en [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dia_(software) [2] http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/images/Flowchart.png http://dia-installer.de/shapes/Flowchart/images/Flowchart.pn...

paxys 8y ago

That's because Push-IMAP was abandoned a long time ago and isn't even part of the standard. Every provider out there (Microsoft with Exchange ActiveSync, Apple's MobileMe and iCloud push, Yahoo, and others) has their own push mechanism. FastMail itself is using something non-standard, and saying it is open source and "being standardized" means nothing. See https://xkcd.com/927 https://xkcd.com/927.

iforgotpassword 8y ago
At least they're trying to be as transparent as possible, and working with the ietf certainly gives it some additional legitimacy. Google as usual just goes the "we're big enough, so accept it or go fuck yourself" way. They're the new Microsoft of the 90s, only much worse.
nmjenkins 8y ago
(Editor of the JMAP spec here.) We at FastMail are using standard IMAP/POP/SMTP, which we offer to all our customers to access their email. In addition, we have invested a large amount of time and resources in R&D to design a next-generation client-server sync protocol based on our deep experience with email. While we could just use this ourselves, we believe an open internet built on standards is healthiest for everyone in the long run. That's why, once we felt we had a solid foundation, we took this work to the IETF where a working group was formed. The spec has evolved considerably since then based on the feedback of many other experts in email from both the open-source and commercial world of email vendors. The spec is now nearly complete and we expect standards-track RFCs to be published later this year. Adoption will then happen slowly over time, as it did with IMAP. Smaller, more nimble companies are likely to move first and then larger companies following later. IMAP took many years to get widespread adoption; I hope we can make the move to JMAP a bit faster, but these things always take time (often measured in years!) to develop, test and release. I love XKCD as much as the next guy, and of course it's kind-of right, but also too cynical: the only other alternative is to not make an effort at all, and accept the status quo is the best you can hope for. We'd like to do better than that. If we fail, at least we know we tried.

mankash666 8y ago

Gmail is a for profit unit of Google. They'll do what they best think they can monetise. Given the surfeit of standards compliant email available, switching to another provider is trivial

rakoo 8y ago

> They refuse to support IMAP push, instead saving push for the Gmail API What are you talking about ? The IDLE command is completely supported and I'm using it in my mail client with no issues at all.