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Wait what? Snowden never turned himself in. Snowden ran for the hills right into the arms of rival intelligence. Please don't confusing cowardly running with t

Wait what? Snowden never turned himself in. Snowden ran for the hills right into the arms of rival intelligence. Please don't confusing cowardly running with the act of committing suicide by sword to the stomach. Whether you agree with Snowden or not, he still committed a crime and broke a contract he signed and swore to. Manning at least spent her day in court. Yeah they are different, Snowden was a coward. If he truly did it for the good of the world, he'd turn himself in because of the reward he has already gotten by sharing information he felt like the world needed.

rdlecler1 9y ago
Snowden knew he was going to get exposed (and likely caught) and he did it anyway. And I certainly don’t blame him for running. The system was never going to give him a fair shake.
lawnchair_larry 9y ago
In no way does forfeiting one’s freedom unnecessarily validate their righteousness. Doing so would be foolish.
ebullientocelot 9y ago
I don't think that's fair to Snowden. Doing something altruistically does NOT preclude skipping the step where you throw yourself into the belly of the most powerful beast in the world, which also happens to be incredibly pissed off at you.
michaelmrose 9y ago
You call someone who threw away their future,their peace of mind, and any hope of a normal life to expose wrongdoing a coward for not also throwing away his life. " If he truly did it for the good of the world, he'd turn himself in because of the reward he has already gotten by sharing information he felt like the world needed." This is offensively manipulative nonsense. Wanting to avoid being thrown in a hole and tortured is a normal human response and utterly orthogonal to whether his motives were pure or not.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  He ran to Hong Kong and immediately leaked a list of compromised Chinese computer systems to the SCMP. He wanted protection from the Chinese government, but he didn't get it. Instead, he ended up getting protection from Putin.
  - musage 9y ago
    You seem to say "Putin" with this implied air of moral superiority, but I'm not seeing it. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/04/forcing-down-morales-plane-air-piracy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/04/forcin... If any country abducted the American president for even "just" 1 hour, people would be going ape shit in 5 seconds flat.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    Do you have a citation for the chinese matter?
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      You can read the articles published by the SCMP itself, to whom Snowden provided a list of Chinese systems targeted and the dates of compromise: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive-snowden-safe-hong-kong-more-us-cyberspying-details-revealed http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive... Here is some stateside coverage analyzing why he did something so stupid: http://theweek.com/articles/463249/why-edward-snowden-spilling-secrets-china http://theweek.com/articles/463249/why-edward-snowden-spilli...
      - michaelmrose 9y ago
        From the first article "In the bigger scale of things, Sino-US relations outweigh any information Snowden may have. It is also impractical for China to hope Snowden will co-operate with us. If he wanted to do that, he'd have flown to Beijing," said an expert in Shanghai who requested anonymity." Looks more like he revealed that we were spying on everyone and ran to Hong Kong because they were a neutral party and you want to spin this into he sold us out to the Chinese to me.
uuuyno 9y ago
I’m stunned someone with the intelligence to type and use a computer could hold this view. You must be heavily influenced by things you’ve read/heard others say. As a human being - just imagine what you might do... Perhaps you’ll begin to realise how palpably absurd your suggestion that someone must be a coward for not taking their beating is.
- nosequel 9y ago
  > I’m stunned someone with the intelligence to type and use a computer could hold this view. Shocker, people have different opinions on the internet. Most intelligent people do in fact think for themselves. > You must be heavily influenced by things you’ve read/heard others say. I'm heavily influenced by taking the same oath as he once did and Manning did. You are given a choice to have a TS/SCI clearance, you can say "no thanks" at many many points in the process. Once given that choice it is up to you do decide whether or not you follow the rules you signed up for. He chose to be treasonous, much like Manning. I'm not arguing about whether that choice was the right one or not, that does not matter. Unlike Manning, he gave intelligence away to foreign countries in hopes they would protect him and he didn't have his day in court. He life is ruined because his plan backfired, that is on him, no one else. So yes, I'm heavily influenced, but by experiences I know about, unlike most. He committed treason, that fact is inarguable, and I believe he should've stayed home and argued his case in court. Manning did, she is now a free woman. I know I'm not going to change your mind, that isn't my intention, but I'm also going to defend my own intelligence. Lifetip: not everyone who disagrees with you is a moron. Have a nice day.

rdlecler1 9y ago

Snowden knew he was going to get exposed (and likely caught) and he did it anyway. And I certainly don’t blame him for running. The system was never going to give him a fair shake.

lawnchair_larry 9y ago

In no way does forfeiting one’s freedom unnecessarily validate their righteousness. Doing so would be foolish.

ebullientocelot 9y ago

I don't think that's fair to Snowden. Doing something altruistically does NOT preclude skipping the step where you throw yourself into the belly of the most powerful beast in the world, which also happens to be incredibly pissed off at you.

michaelmrose 9y ago

You call someone who threw away their future,their peace of mind, and any hope of a normal life to expose wrongdoing a coward for not also throwing away his life. " If he truly did it for the good of the world, he'd turn himself in because of the reward he has already gotten by sharing information he felt like the world needed." This is offensively manipulative nonsense. Wanting to avoid being thrown in a hole and tortured is a normal human response and utterly orthogonal to whether his motives were pure or not.

lern_too_spel 9y ago
He ran to Hong Kong and immediately leaked a list of compromised Chinese computer systems to the SCMP. He wanted protection from the Chinese government, but he didn't get it. Instead, he ended up getting protection from Putin.
- musage 9y ago
  You seem to say "Putin" with this implied air of moral superiority, but I'm not seeing it. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/04/forcing-down-morales-plane-air-piracy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/04/forcin... If any country abducted the American president for even "just" 1 hour, people would be going ape shit in 5 seconds flat.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Do you have a citation for the chinese matter?
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    You can read the articles published by the SCMP itself, to whom Snowden provided a list of Chinese systems targeted and the dates of compromise: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive-snowden-safe-hong-kong-more-us-cyberspying-details-revealed http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusive... Here is some stateside coverage analyzing why he did something so stupid: http://theweek.com/articles/463249/why-edward-snowden-spilling-secrets-china http://theweek.com/articles/463249/why-edward-snowden-spilli...
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      From the first article "In the bigger scale of things, Sino-US relations outweigh any information Snowden may have. It is also impractical for China to hope Snowden will co-operate with us. If he wanted to do that, he'd have flown to Beijing," said an expert in Shanghai who requested anonymity." Looks more like he revealed that we were spying on everyone and ran to Hong Kong because they were a neutral party and you want to spin this into he sold us out to the Chinese to me.

uuuyno 9y ago

I’m stunned someone with the intelligence to type and use a computer could hold this view. You must be heavily influenced by things you’ve read/heard others say. As a human being - just imagine what you might do... Perhaps you’ll begin to realise how palpably absurd your suggestion that someone must be a coward for not taking their beating is.

nosequel 9y ago
> I’m stunned someone with the intelligence to type and use a computer could hold this view. Shocker, people have different opinions on the internet. Most intelligent people do in fact think for themselves. > You must be heavily influenced by things you’ve read/heard others say. I'm heavily influenced by taking the same oath as he once did and Manning did. You are given a choice to have a TS/SCI clearance, you can say "no thanks" at many many points in the process. Once given that choice it is up to you do decide whether or not you follow the rules you signed up for. He chose to be treasonous, much like Manning. I'm not arguing about whether that choice was the right one or not, that does not matter. Unlike Manning, he gave intelligence away to foreign countries in hopes they would protect him and he didn't have his day in court. He life is ruined because his plan backfired, that is on him, no one else. So yes, I'm heavily influenced, but by experiences I know about, unlike most. He committed treason, that fact is inarguable, and I believe he should've stayed home and argued his case in court. Manning did, she is now a free woman. I know I'm not going to change your mind, that isn't my intention, but I'm also going to defend my own intelligence. Lifetip: not everyone who disagrees with you is a moron. Have a nice day.