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This may sound naive, but how does IP Theft even work? I've worked as a software engineer for over 12 years at over half a dozen companies, with codebases numb

This may sound naive, but how does IP Theft even work? I've worked as a software engineer for over 12 years at over half a dozen companies, with codebases numbering in the millions of lines of code and I have yet to see any software or code I could imagine anyone would want to steal. And if you really needed some code, I'm sure it's available somewhere as open source. And wouldn't the open source code be much more preferable? rather than ripping out some piece of "stolen" code that was never meant to serve other purposes.

yorwba 8y ago
IP that's worth stealing is not limited to one specific implementation, it's about using someone else's idea. (So "theft" is a misnomer, it's really about imitation.) For example, if you buy a competitor's product to take it apart, replicate its components and assemble lots of knock-offs, you have some validation that the product is going to work, without having to do any costly planning and design yourself. All of that works without literally breaking into the competitor's factory to steal their equipment or their code. For a lot of really valuable IP you won't find an open source implementation, or if you do, you won't be able to legally use it, at least as long as software patents are a thing.
- sumanthvepa 8y ago
  It is utterly ridiculous that to take an =idea= is considered theft. In that case, pretty much every American corporation can be accused of theft. Google: Stolen from alta vista, Microsoft: Stolen from CP/M, Apple: Stolen from Xerox, The american space program: stolen from the Nazis! If that's the basis for accusing China of stealing IP, it's a pretty weak argument.
rayiner 8y ago
E.g. what is now a major Chinese player in the US market used to clone Juniper/Cisco routers down to the English silk screened assembly instructions on the circuit boards.
remir 8y ago
Intellectual property is not just code. It can be patents, a product, a specific design.
noselasd 8y ago
If you can simply copy the entire hardware design, pcb layout, firmware etc. of an hydraulic press, milling machine, washing machine, surveillance camera, USB serial adapter, etc. you can get a sellable product out the door fast and a lot cheaper than starting from scratch and doing it all yourself.
aaavl2821 8y ago
In biotech, it can take the form of patents not being honored. Also lab workers learning trade secrets, then the local government revoking business licenses for the US company essentially giving control of the business to a Chinese entity. Have even heard of the govt literally taking equity in successful startups from Chinese private venture funds in some cases All of this is just anecdotal second hand evidence but wanted to answer the question :)
akoumis 8y ago
Here is an interesting example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/chinese-firm-sinovel-convicted-in-u-s-of-trade-secret-theft https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/chinese-f... A Chinese wind turbine manufacturer paid a programmer working at American Superconductor to send them the source code used to run the turbines. The company shortly afterwards cancelled their contract w/ AMSC.
mfrykman 8y ago
Also worth noting that China's government policies can create a domestic vacuum for products previously validated outside of China. Google's product and business model can be replicated for the 1.3+ billion Chinese citizens that don't have access.

yorwba 8y ago

IP that's worth stealing is not limited to one specific implementation, it's about using someone else's idea. (So "theft" is a misnomer, it's really about imitation.) For example, if you buy a competitor's product to take it apart, replicate its components and assemble lots of knock-offs, you have some validation that the product is going to work, without having to do any costly planning and design yourself. All of that works without literally breaking into the competitor's factory to steal their equipment or their code. For a lot of really valuable IP you won't find an open source implementation, or if you do, you won't be able to legally use it, at least as long as software patents are a thing.

sumanthvepa 8y ago
It is utterly ridiculous that to take an =idea= is considered theft. In that case, pretty much every American corporation can be accused of theft. Google: Stolen from alta vista, Microsoft: Stolen from CP/M, Apple: Stolen from Xerox, The american space program: stolen from the Nazis! If that's the basis for accusing China of stealing IP, it's a pretty weak argument.

rayiner 8y ago

E.g. what is now a major Chinese player in the US market used to clone Juniper/Cisco routers down to the English silk screened assembly instructions on the circuit boards.

remir 8y ago

Intellectual property is not just code. It can be patents, a product, a specific design.

noselasd 8y ago

If you can simply copy the entire hardware design, pcb layout, firmware etc. of an hydraulic press, milling machine, washing machine, surveillance camera, USB serial adapter, etc. you can get a sellable product out the door fast and a lot cheaper than starting from scratch and doing it all yourself.

aaavl2821 8y ago

In biotech, it can take the form of patents not being honored. Also lab workers learning trade secrets, then the local government revoking business licenses for the US company essentially giving control of the business to a Chinese entity. Have even heard of the govt literally taking equity in successful startups from Chinese private venture funds in some cases All of this is just anecdotal second hand evidence but wanted to answer the question :)

akoumis 8y ago

Here is an interesting example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/chinese-firm-sinovel-convicted-in-u-s-of-trade-secret-theft https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/chinese-f... A Chinese wind turbine manufacturer paid a programmer working at American Superconductor to send them the source code used to run the turbines. The company shortly afterwards cancelled their contract w/ AMSC.

mfrykman 8y ago

Also worth noting that China's government policies can create a domestic vacuum for products previously validated outside of China. Google's product and business model can be replicated for the 1.3+ billion Chinese citizens that don't have access.