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Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talki

by urda 9y ago

Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. Apple isn't doing this because they don't want people to repair their stuff, but because for most consumers it isn't feasible without ruining the rest of the product. These are small, compact, and complicated devices. It's not like swapping out some RAM or a GPU on a desktop rig at all. So yes, replace the whole board and recycle the old (as Apple does with most of their parts).

nightcracker 9y ago
> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? Are you seriously trying to discredit a man for doing exactly what he's fighting for? It's like trying to discredit a politician that's pushing for the abolition of jaywalking by saying that he jay walks himself. No shit - that's the whole point.
- urda 9y ago
  I'll repost the same thing here, since apparently this is confusing to some HN users this morning: > So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.
  - pixl97 9y ago
    "I'm sorry, I can't discuss this case with you because you won't sit at the back of the bus, like the law says" --You 60 years ago
ksk 9y ago
>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias.
- urda 9y ago
  > And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias. Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information. Drop the strawman it's unbecoming. Second, there's an entire industry and certification to auto mechanics much like a trained repairman would be for phones. Third, since when is a "Joe-schmoe" a skilled repair worker? I fully do not expect the common citizen to even know how to do a basic soldier, let alone replace parts on a packed PCB. I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park". Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit.
  - ksk 9y ago
    >Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! Oh, but you certainly are able to determine the skill level of people you don't know. Nice. Quoting you: >The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. You called them joe-schmoe, and questioned the quality of their work. Yeah, maybe in your alternate universe that considered praise. Normal people read that as an insult. Let me suggest some alternate wording "a competent technician will use their extensive knowledge, and repair your device" >Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit. I would invite you to take your own advice first. >I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park". Please point to the text arguing that repairing devices is a "walk in the park".
Someone1234 9y ago
> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the issue, that people have lost the "right to repair" their own devices due to suppressing information, suppressing reverse engineering efforts, and suppressing compatible replacement components (and software). Effectively you're saying that if someone supports and tries to uphold the "right to repair" their opinions should be ignored because they did something a large corporation told them not to. > Apple isn't doing this because they don't want people to repair their stuff See, I thought it was financially motivated. > but because for most consumers it isn't feasible without ruining the rest of the product. Someone has a broken device, they shouldn't be allowed to try and repair it themselves because they could make it worse? In either case they have a broken device. And Apple is well within their rights to refuse a repair after someone has tried a DIY repair, but often that isn't a financial possibility which is why a DIY repair was tried to begin with. You don't have to go far to find an anecdote of someone who took an older Macbook into an Apple store and the repair cost was nearly as high as a replacement cost.
- urda 9y ago
  > So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.
  - smallnamespace 9y ago
    > that's called "breaking the law" Right, which is why people are advocating getting the law changed, because they believe the practical outcome of law as it current exists is not just (nor economically efficient, for that matter).
smallnamespace 9y ago
> The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control Right, and the entire discussion is that Apple's right to quality control has overreached to the point that it is now impinging upon the common sense right of someone to be able try to fix something that they own when it breaks.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  How so? Apple isn't stopping anyone from being able to try and fix something that they own. The only action they've taken is against companies claiming that they're an Apple authorized repair center when they're not.
crististm 9y ago
About counting people thing: your frame of reference is probably too narrow? Come to thing of it, I personally don't know ten people capable of doing state of the art SMD repairs but I'm sure there are many more than that in _my town_.

by urda 9y ago

nightcracker 9y ago

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? Are you seriously trying to discredit a man for doing exactly what he's fighting for? It's like trying to discredit a politician that's pushing for the abolition of jaywalking by saying that he jay walks himself. No shit - that's the whole point.

urda 9y ago
I'll repost the same thing here, since apparently this is confusing to some HN users this morning: > So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.
- pixl97 9y ago
  "I'm sorry, I can't discuss this case with you because you won't sit at the back of the bus, like the law says" --You 60 years ago

ksk 9y ago

>The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias.

urda 9y ago
> And yet people are perfectly OK with a greasy mechanic fixing their metal cage hurtling down the freeway at 65 miles per hour. Your attempt to demean skilled repair workers is rather telling of your own bias. Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! For a matter of fact, I'm also very picky on who works or touches my car just for your information. Drop the strawman it's unbecoming. Second, there's an entire industry and certification to auto mechanics much like a trained repairman would be for phones. Third, since when is a "Joe-schmoe" a skilled repair worker? I fully do not expect the common citizen to even know how to do a basic soldier, let alone replace parts on a packed PCB. I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park". Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit.
- ksk 9y ago
  >Woah I didn't know you could read my mind! Oh, but you certainly are able to determine the skill level of people you don't know. Nice. Quoting you: >The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. You called them joe-schmoe, and questioned the quality of their work. Yeah, maybe in your alternate universe that considered praise. Normal people read that as an insult. Let me suggest some alternate wording "a competent technician will use their extensive knowledge, and repair your device" >Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit. I would invite you to take your own advice first. >I didn't mention anything about skilled repair workers, nor is that demeaning to point out the abilities to repair small electronic devices like phones is not just a "walk in the park". Please point to the text arguing that repairing devices is a "walk in the park".

Someone1234 9y ago

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the issue, that people have lost the "right to repair" their own devices due to suppressing information, suppressing reverse engineering efforts, and suppressing compatible replacement components (and software). Effectively you're saying that if someone supports and tries to uphold the "right to repair" their opinions should be ignored because they did something a large corporation told them not to. > Apple isn't doing this because they don't want people to repair their stuff See, I thought it was financially motivated. > but because for most consumers it isn't feasible without ruining the rest of the product. Someone has a broken device, they shouldn't be allowed to try and repair it themselves because they could make it worse? In either case they have a broken device. And Apple is well within their rights to refuse a repair after someone has tried a DIY repair, but often that isn't a financial possibility which is why a DIY repair was tried to begin with. You don't have to go far to find an anecdote of someone who took an older Macbook into an Apple store and the repair cost was nearly as high as a replacement cost.

urda 9y ago
> So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals because the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? Yes, because it's a legal case we are discussing here and that's called "breaking the law". Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part.
- smallnamespace 9y ago
  > that's called "breaking the law" Right, which is why people are advocating getting the law changed, because they believe the practical outcome of law as it current exists is not just (nor economically efficient, for that matter).

smallnamespace 9y ago

> The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control Right, and the entire discussion is that Apple's right to quality control has overreached to the point that it is now impinging upon the common sense right of someone to be able try to fix something that they own when it breaks.

dpkonofa 9y ago
How so? Apple isn't stopping anyone from being able to try and fix something that they own. The only action they've taken is against companies claiming that they're an Apple authorized repair center when they're not.

crististm 9y ago

About counting people thing: your frame of reference is probably too narrow? Come to thing of it, I personally don't know ten people capable of doing state of the art SMD repairs but I'm sure there are many more than that in _my town_.