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This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're constantly conflating what Apple is fighting against (counterfeit parts and being compelled to provide documentation and manuals without oversight) with the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. They're fighting the fact that these bills, every single one of them, wants to force Apple to provide instructions and parts for repair shops that aren't Apple authorized for which they can't verify or guarantee the quality fo the repair. That's a completely understandable position and yet people keep falsely claiming that it's simply about Apple wanting to keep people from repairing their own stuff. That's not it at all and it's doing a disservice to the "Right to Repair" movement to continue to do so.

barrkel 9y ago
The article flatly contradicts your claims.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  The website of the company that the article is about does not. They state (and it's archived since they've changed it since the court case) that they use genuine Apple parts for their repairs. Edit - https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...
eagsalazar2 9y ago
How can you or other 3rd parties repair devices if Apple won't sell parts or provide manuals and it sues people who claim to be able to do such things on your behalf? I think it is fair that apple withhold an "apple certified" designation but everything else beyond that is them trying to squash 3rd party repairs so that they can maintain a monopoly on that work, prevent you from upgrading memory, etc and ultimately keep you on the upgrade treadmill. You really don't think that is the case?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  >Apple won't sell parts or provide manuals and it sues people who claim to be able to do such things on your behalf This is objectively not true. Apple is not against selling parts or manuals. That's the entire point of an Apple Authorized Repair center. Anyone can get certified by Apple if they can demonstrate that the repairs are done to the level that Apple specifies. What the "Right to Repair" bills are asking for is that Apple provides the manuals for free. Why is that justifiable, fair, or right in any sense if doing so could (and materially would) harm their business? As for the second claim, Apple has never, ever sued someone simply for repairing their devices as a third-party. They've only sued people who claimed to use genuine Apple parts that weren't or people who stole manuals and schematics that are reserved for authorized repair centers.
atonse 9y ago
It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers. (This is from Louis Rossmann, a well known YouTuber who fixes MacBooks). You are basically restricted to mostly replacing boards and things like that, not fixing individual chips. For a company that toots their horn about being Green, their policies sure generate a ton more waste than necessary. And I say this as someone who almost exclusively owns Apple stuff. I am holding out with my 2015 MBP dearly for the next iteration of their laptop keyboards that don't require a $500 repair because of a spec of dust. All this has made me a STRONG proponent of the right-to-repair movement. If Apple actually cared more about less flashy and sexy parts about being green, they'd make these parts readily available.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- urda 9y ago
  Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. Apple isn't doing this because they don't want people to repair their stuff, but because for most consumers it isn't feasible without ruining the rest of the product. These are small, compact, and complicated devices. It's not like swapping out some RAM or a GPU on a desktop rig at all. So yes, replace the whole board and recycle the old (as Apple does with most of their parts).
  - nightcracker 9y ago
    > Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? Are you seriously trying to discredit a man for doing exactly what he's fighting for? It's like trying to discredit a politician that's pushing for the abolition of jaywalking by saying that he jay walks himself. No shit - that's the whole point.
bambax 9y ago
> the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. Hmm, what? Apple is actively fighting that by making devices incredibly difficult to tear appart, not selling replacement parts, and, yes, suing every mom-and-pop repair shop.
- zaroth 9y ago
  The “difficult to tear apart” thing I would give incredible leeway to. It’s very hard to demand a device is physically constructed a certain way without unintentionally harming innovation. Besides, people have differing opinions on what constitutes “ difficult to tear apart”. I’ve replaced batteries on all my iPhones and while it’s a delicate procedure it’s not particularly difficult, takes just a few minutes, and I’ve never damaged a phone in the process. I remember how much vitriol there was against Apple for not having hot swappable batteries, but I’m sure glad they went that route, and that they were able to lead the market in that choice. But for the rest of it, they should definitely have to provide parts, manuals, and attacking the independent repair shops is wrong unless the shop is actually misleading their customers.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  >suing every mom-and-pop repair shop. This is blatantly false. Please link 1 instance where Apple sued a mom-and-pop repair shop for anything other than they were claiming they were an authorized repair center or used genuine parts and didn't.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hhw 9y ago
But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” Unless you have evidence of the contrary, your argument is not applicable to this case.
- woobar 9y ago
  > But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. Not trying to pick side in this argument, but a quick search on webarchive[1] shows that this page (https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/ https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/) used to have this blurb: 'Kun orginale deler blir brukt her hos oss!' That google translates as 'Only original parts are used here!' [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...
- bluGill 9y ago
  The problem for Apple is if you sell badly repaired phone, the buyer has no way of knowing it was badly repaired and will blame Apple for any failures.
  - dpkonofa 9y ago
    This is exactly it. Note that Apple has yet to go after or sue someone simply for repairing an Apple device. That's never been the case yet. They've only sued people who claim to use genuine parts that don't, people who have used stolen service manuals, or companies that claim to do authorized repairs but don't.
opencl 9y ago
Where do you see any indication that this man was claiming to use genuine Apple components? I see nothing of the sort on his website[1]. The article specifically says that he made no claims of being authorized by Apple or using genuine Apple components and the court agreed with him. There was an Apple logo, on an internal component, which was covered up, because (at least according to the seller) they actually are Apple parts that had been refurbished. Now maybe they actually are counterfeit parts and the seller was lying, but there is zero evidence of this and the repairman certainly wasn't intentionally selling counterfeits or lying about anything. [1] https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/ https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/
- ryguytilidie 9y ago
  I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about: "This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement." So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and pretend like this thing you made up is a great illustration of the grudge you had against some people. But my question is, why?
  - ericabiz 9y ago
    > Why? Because he’s a former Apple employee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa
    - dpkonofa 9y ago
      Why does that have any affect on my point? The article has been changed since it was originally posted. The original article had the guy claiming he was using genuine Apple parts which was stated right on the company's website (they've changed it since the case went to court): https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...
ksk 9y ago
Well, heres hoping it doesn't get canned. >This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're constantly conflating what Apple is fighting against (counterfeit parts and being compelled to provide documentation and manuals without oversight) with the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices Your complaint seems rather imagined to me. Where are they "constantly conflating"? I don't see that here. https://repair.org/ https://repair.org/
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  >Your complaint seems rather imagined to me. Please show me a source where Apple sued someone (either an individual or a third-party repair center) simply for repairing their own device or a user's device on behalf of that user. You won't find it because that's not what Apple's complaint is here. People are conflating Apple's refusal to provide manuals and replacement parts without cost (and outside of their certification program) with the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. That's not true in the slightest and it's straight-up misinformation.
  - ksk 9y ago
    >Please show me a source where Apple sued someone (either an individual or a third-party repair center) simply for repairing their own device or a user's device on behalf of that user. You won't find it because that's not what Apple's complaint is here. That would be inefficient and a waste of their money in most cases. >People are conflating Apple's refusal to provide manuals and replacement parts without cost (and outside of their certification program) with the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. Apple uses various methods - Updates that brick repaired phones, and copyright/patent law to block others from supplying parts. Here they can choke the repair shops much more easily. I don't want to be forced to go to Subaru to repair my car either. I prefer to have an option of which tires to buy, which oil to use, which stereo I use, etc. I also don't want the car to be welded together to the point where nobody can repair it. YMMV. Sometimes the good guys win. https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/25/iphone-warranty-third-party-screen/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/25/iphone-warranty-third-party-s... http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/06/technology/apple-australia-lawsuit-error-53-iphone-brick/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/06/technology/apple-australia-l... >the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. People don't want to repair the phones themselves. They want to use services available in almost every other consumer industry to service their phones. Apple insists that they should be the sole arbiter of who is and isn't allowed to do that. People are trying to fight Apple on that. And thats what its all about. Apple does produce some very high quality products and I have enjoyed many of them over the years. That doesn't make them a saint on all fronts. Fairs fair, Praise where praise is due, and criticism when they do something purely out of greed/control.
cptskippy 9y ago
> They're constantly conflating what Apple is fighting against (counterfeit parts and being compelled to provide documentation and manuals without oversight) with the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. Apple is setting up an environment where counterfeiting is practically necessary by hindering legitimate repairs using non counterfeit non genuine parts. Apple doesn't allow those who aren't Authorized Repair Centers to purchase genuine replacement parts or to have access to service manuals. I'm not aware of another OEM that does this. I can go to HP, Dell, Samsung, MSI, Acer, or LG and purchase genuine parts or download service manuals. Apple posts service manuals online but they go out of their way to lock them behind a login so that only Authorized users can see them. Apple has bricked iPhones during iOS upgrades if those devices weren't using genuine Apple displays. Apple has bricked iPhones during iOS upgrades if you replaced the touch ID, regardless of whether it was a genuine part or not. The iPhone X camera module is a separate part form the display yet if you replace the display genuine or not while keeping the original camera module, it stops working for facial authentication. Apple disabled the ability to adjust the brightness of your Macbook's display if it wasn't genuine. Hey maybe it doesn't want to damage non genuine displays... so what's the difference between a genuine and non genuine part? The EEID that Apple programs into them. A counterfeit display in this case is simply one that was purchase from Apple's supplier, LG, and programmed with Apple's EEID not by Apple.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  >Apple doesn't allow those who aren't Authorized Repair Centers to purchase genuine replacement parts or to have access to service manuals And why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? They're not stopping anyone from reverse engineering the parts. They're not stopping anyone from doing the repairs and documenting them otherwise. I don't understand why anyone thinks that Apple should be compelled to willfully aid people that could harm their business model and their brand and to do it for free, no less.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    > And why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? They are perfectly in their right to do that, it's just shitty. > They're not stopping anyone from doing the repairs Actually they are by bricking devices later for having non genuine parts or unauthorized repairs. > I don't understand why anyone thinks that Apple should be compelled... Who said anything about compelling them to do anything? I just said they were dicks. And how would allowing people to service their own machine hurt Apple's brand anymore than people currently making unauthorized repairs? Giving them access to genuine parts would just increase the likelihood that the repairs work.
crististm 9y ago
Where do you get the idea that Apple or anyone else for that matter can dictate the after market service level? The appropriate move is that everybody on the market to deliver the schematics of the device to the purchaser, not to the service shops. And while we're at it (since as you said, Apple is not fighting the right to repair) provide also the complete source code with all the private keys they use to brick repaired devices into oblivion. You might want to reconsider your position on defending idiotic corporate behavior against individuals.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  >The appropriate move is that everybody on the market to deliver the schematics of the device to the purchaser Why? Why is that appropriate when that's not the case for any other product or service that you can own? There's nothing to reconsider if I don't find their behavior idiotic.
  - crististm 9y ago
    That's a simple one: because they already deliver manuals to the service shops of their choice. With regard to your circular reasoning: it goes nowhere. You should know that all devices used to come with service manuals and some still do today.
    - dpkonofa 9y ago
      They used to come with service manuals because they were a collection of simple mechanical parts. Devices nowadays are far more complicated and intricate than the types of things you're referring to.
      - crististm 9y ago
        There is the part where service manuals exist today. Apple just don't give them to you. I sense a fairy tale infinite complexity in todays devices from your post. You know that people built them
jkoebler 9y ago
From the article (which I wrote, happy to answer questions) ... this is quoted in the court decision i.e., was written by a judge not by the defendant: "PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.”"
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  The PCKompaniet web site states that they use genuine Apple parts. Edit: https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...
wuliwong 9y ago
> the court decision states. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” You are incorrect. The Apple logos were covered up and the court findings state that they were never uncovered. I didn't see anywhere in this article where they say the owner was making claims about using genuine Apple parts. But I do agree, it seems the right to repair stuff is not great. Repair whatever you want but don't force Apple to help you.

barrkel 9y ago

The article flatly contradicts your claims.

dpkonofa 9y ago
The website of the company that the article is about does not. They state (and it's archived since they've changed it since the court case) that they use genuine Apple parts for their repairs. Edit - https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...

eagsalazar2 9y ago

How can you or other 3rd parties repair devices if Apple won't sell parts or provide manuals and it sues people who claim to be able to do such things on your behalf? I think it is fair that apple withhold an "apple certified" designation but everything else beyond that is them trying to squash 3rd party repairs so that they can maintain a monopoly on that work, prevent you from upgrading memory, etc and ultimately keep you on the upgrade treadmill. You really don't think that is the case?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dpkonofa 9y ago
>Apple won't sell parts or provide manuals and it sues people who claim to be able to do such things on your behalf This is objectively not true. Apple is not against selling parts or manuals. That's the entire point of an Apple Authorized Repair center. Anyone can get certified by Apple if they can demonstrate that the repairs are done to the level that Apple specifies. What the "Right to Repair" bills are asking for is that Apple provides the manuals for free. Why is that justifiable, fair, or right in any sense if doing so could (and materially would) harm their business? As for the second claim, Apple has never, ever sued someone simply for repairing their devices as a third-party. They've only sued people who claimed to use genuine Apple parts that weren't or people who stole manuals and schematics that are reserved for authorized repair centers.

atonse 9y ago

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers. (This is from Louis Rossmann, a well known YouTuber who fixes MacBooks). You are basically restricted to mostly replacing boards and things like that, not fixing individual chips. For a company that toots their horn about being Green, their policies sure generate a ton more waste than necessary. And I say this as someone who almost exclusively owns Apple stuff. I am holding out with my 2015 MBP dearly for the next iteration of their laptop keyboards that don't require a $500 repair because of a spec of dust. All this has made me a STRONG proponent of the right-to-repair movement. If Apple actually cared more about less flashy and sexy parts about being green, they'd make these parts readily available.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
urda 9y ago
Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC, let alone my phone and even then let alone desoldering and soldering new components onboard. Apple isn't doing this because they don't want people to repair their stuff, but because for most consumers it isn't feasible without ruining the rest of the product. These are small, compact, and complicated devices. It's not like swapping out some RAM or a GPU on a desktop rig at all. So yes, replace the whole board and recycle the old (as Apple does with most of their parts).
- nightcracker 9y ago
  > Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? Are you seriously trying to discredit a man for doing exactly what he's fighting for? It's like trying to discredit a politician that's pushing for the abolition of jaywalking by saying that he jay walks himself. No shit - that's the whole point.

bambax 9y ago

> the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. Hmm, what? Apple is actively fighting that by making devices incredibly difficult to tear appart, not selling replacement parts, and, yes, suing every mom-and-pop repair shop.

zaroth 9y ago
The “difficult to tear apart” thing I would give incredible leeway to. It’s very hard to demand a device is physically constructed a certain way without unintentionally harming innovation. Besides, people have differing opinions on what constitutes “ difficult to tear apart”. I’ve replaced batteries on all my iPhones and while it’s a delicate procedure it’s not particularly difficult, takes just a few minutes, and I’ve never damaged a phone in the process. I remember how much vitriol there was against Apple for not having hot swappable batteries, but I’m sure glad they went that route, and that they were able to lead the market in that choice. But for the rest of it, they should definitely have to provide parts, manuals, and attacking the independent repair shops is wrong unless the shop is actually misleading their customers.
dpkonofa 9y ago
>suing every mom-and-pop repair shop. This is blatantly false. Please link 1 instance where Apple sued a mom-and-pop repair shop for anything other than they were claiming they were an authorized repair center or used genuine parts and didn't.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hhw 9y ago

But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” Unless you have evidence of the contrary, your argument is not applicable to this case.

woobar 9y ago
> But the article states quite clearly that he is NOT claiming to use genuine parts. Not trying to pick side in this argument, but a quick search on webarchive[1] shows that this page (https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/ https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/) used to have this blurb: 'Kun orginale deler blir brukt her hos oss!' That google translates as 'Only original parts are used here!' [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...
bluGill 9y ago
The problem for Apple is if you sell badly repaired phone, the buyer has no way of knowing it was badly repaired and will blame Apple for any failures.
- dpkonofa 9y ago
  This is exactly it. Note that Apple has yet to go after or sue someone simply for repairing an Apple device. That's never been the case yet. They've only sued people who claim to use genuine parts that don't, people who have used stolen service manuals, or companies that claim to do authorized repairs but don't.

opencl 9y ago

Where do you see any indication that this man was claiming to use genuine Apple components? I see nothing of the sort on his website[1]. The article specifically says that he made no claims of being authorized by Apple or using genuine Apple components and the court agreed with him. There was an Apple logo, on an internal component, which was covered up, because (at least according to the seller) they actually are Apple parts that had been refurbished. Now maybe they actually are counterfeit parts and the seller was lying, but there is zero evidence of this and the repairman certainly wasn't intentionally selling counterfeits or lying about anything. [1] https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/ https://www.pckompaniet.no/reparasjon-iphone/

ryguytilidie 9y ago
I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about: "This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement." So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and pretend like this thing you made up is a great illustration of the grudge you had against some people. But my question is, why?
- ericabiz 9y ago
  > Why? Because he’s a former Apple employee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa
  - dpkonofa 9y ago
    Why does that have any affect on my point? The article has been changed since it was originally posted. The original article had the guy claiming he was using genuine Apple parts which was stated right on the company's website (they've changed it since the case went to court): https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...

ksk 9y ago

Well, heres hoping it doesn't get canned. >This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're constantly conflating what Apple is fighting against (counterfeit parts and being compelled to provide documentation and manuals without oversight) with the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices Your complaint seems rather imagined to me. Where are they "constantly conflating"? I don't see that here. https://repair.org/ https://repair.org/

dpkonofa 9y ago
>Your complaint seems rather imagined to me. Please show me a source where Apple sued someone (either an individual or a third-party repair center) simply for repairing their own device or a user's device on behalf of that user. You won't find it because that's not what Apple's complaint is here. People are conflating Apple's refusal to provide manuals and replacement parts without cost (and outside of their certification program) with the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. That's not true in the slightest and it's straight-up misinformation.
- ksk 9y ago
  >Please show me a source where Apple sued someone (either an individual or a third-party repair center) simply for repairing their own device or a user's device on behalf of that user. You won't find it because that's not what Apple's complaint is here. That would be inefficient and a waste of their money in most cases. >People are conflating Apple's refusal to provide manuals and replacement parts without cost (and outside of their certification program) with the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. Apple uses various methods - Updates that brick repaired phones, and copyright/patent law to block others from supplying parts. Here they can choke the repair shops much more easily. I don't want to be forced to go to Subaru to repair my car either. I prefer to have an option of which tires to buy, which oil to use, which stereo I use, etc. I also don't want the car to be welded together to the point where nobody can repair it. YMMV. Sometimes the good guys win. https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/25/iphone-warranty-third-party-screen/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/02/25/iphone-warranty-third-party-s... http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/06/technology/apple-australia-lawsuit-error-53-iphone-brick/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/06/technology/apple-australia-l... >the idea that Apple is trying to prevent people from repairing their own devices. People don't want to repair the phones themselves. They want to use services available in almost every other consumer industry to service their phones. Apple insists that they should be the sole arbiter of who is and isn't allowed to do that. People are trying to fight Apple on that. And thats what its all about. Apple does produce some very high quality products and I have enjoyed many of them over the years. That doesn't make them a saint on all fronts. Fairs fair, Praise where praise is due, and criticism when they do something purely out of greed/control.

cptskippy 9y ago

> They're constantly conflating what Apple is fighting against (counterfeit parts and being compelled to provide documentation and manuals without oversight) with the valid complaint of users not being legally allowed to repair their own devices. Apple has never been against that and isn't fighting that. Apple is setting up an environment where counterfeiting is practically necessary by hindering legitimate repairs using non counterfeit non genuine parts. Apple doesn't allow those who aren't Authorized Repair Centers to purchase genuine replacement parts or to have access to service manuals. I'm not aware of another OEM that does this. I can go to HP, Dell, Samsung, MSI, Acer, or LG and purchase genuine parts or download service manuals. Apple posts service manuals online but they go out of their way to lock them behind a login so that only Authorized users can see them. Apple has bricked iPhones during iOS upgrades if those devices weren't using genuine Apple displays. Apple has bricked iPhones during iOS upgrades if you replaced the touch ID, regardless of whether it was a genuine part or not. The iPhone X camera module is a separate part form the display yet if you replace the display genuine or not while keeping the original camera module, it stops working for facial authentication. Apple disabled the ability to adjust the brightness of your Macbook's display if it wasn't genuine. Hey maybe it doesn't want to damage non genuine displays... so what's the difference between a genuine and non genuine part? The EEID that Apple programs into them. A counterfeit display in this case is simply one that was purchase from Apple's supplier, LG, and programmed with Apple's EEID not by Apple.

dpkonofa 9y ago
>Apple doesn't allow those who aren't Authorized Repair Centers to purchase genuine replacement parts or to have access to service manuals And why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? They're not stopping anyone from reverse engineering the parts. They're not stopping anyone from doing the repairs and documenting them otherwise. I don't understand why anyone thinks that Apple should be compelled to willfully aid people that could harm their business model and their brand and to do it for free, no less.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  > And why shouldn't they be allowed to do that? They are perfectly in their right to do that, it's just shitty. > They're not stopping anyone from doing the repairs Actually they are by bricking devices later for having non genuine parts or unauthorized repairs. > I don't understand why anyone thinks that Apple should be compelled... Who said anything about compelling them to do anything? I just said they were dicks. And how would allowing people to service their own machine hurt Apple's brand anymore than people currently making unauthorized repairs? Giving them access to genuine parts would just increase the likelihood that the repairs work.

crististm 9y ago

Where do you get the idea that Apple or anyone else for that matter can dictate the after market service level? The appropriate move is that everybody on the market to deliver the schematics of the device to the purchaser, not to the service shops. And while we're at it (since as you said, Apple is not fighting the right to repair) provide also the complete source code with all the private keys they use to brick repaired devices into oblivion. You might want to reconsider your position on defending idiotic corporate behavior against individuals.

dpkonofa 9y ago
>The appropriate move is that everybody on the market to deliver the schematics of the device to the purchaser Why? Why is that appropriate when that's not the case for any other product or service that you can own? There's nothing to reconsider if I don't find their behavior idiotic.
- crististm 9y ago
  That's a simple one: because they already deliver manuals to the service shops of their choice. With regard to your circular reasoning: it goes nowhere. You should know that all devices used to come with service manuals and some still do today.
  - dpkonofa 9y ago
    They used to come with service manuals because they were a collection of simple mechanical parts. Devices nowadays are far more complicated and intricate than the types of things you're referring to.
    - crististm 9y ago
      There is the part where service manuals exist today. Apple just don't give them to you. I sense a fairy tale infinite complexity in todays devices from your post. You know that people built them

jkoebler 9y ago

From the article (which I wrote, happy to answer questions) ... this is quoted in the court decision i.e., was written by a judge not by the defendant: "PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.”"

dpkonofa 9y ago
The PCKompaniet web site states that they use genuine Apple parts. Edit: https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckompaniet.no:80/index.php/reparasjon-iphone-ipad/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...

wuliwong 9y ago

> the court decision states. “PCKompaniet has never removed the coverup of the Apple logo on the screens that have been imported and has no interest in doing so. PCKompaniet does not pretend or market itself as Apple authorized and does not give any indication that the repair comes with an Apple warranty.” You are incorrect. The Apple logos were covered up and the court findings state that they were never uncovered. I didn't see anywhere in this article where they say the owner was making claims about using genuine Apple parts. But I do agree, it seems the right to repair stuff is not great. Repair whatever you want but don't force Apple to help you.