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On the contrary. Language snobs have programmed in multiple languages. That's why they can clearly recognize a flaw when they see it. If you've always used a to

by jules 16y ago

On the contrary. Language snobs have programmed in multiple languages. That's why they can clearly recognize a flaw when they see it. If you've always used a tool with the same flaw you likely don't recognize it as a flaw and just think that that's the way it works. Or you do kinda recognize it as a flaw but don't realize how much it slows you down.

jacquesm 16y ago
I've used quite a few languages and even though I see the flaws I just shrug and get on with the job at hand, re-writing something because a code base is not written in 'your' language is the mark of a pretty inflexible programmer. A language snob is someone who derives a feeling of superiority from the language they use, in reality the tools matter a lot less than language snobs will have you believe. I've worked with lots of people over the years, and some of them were all-out snobs about 'their' chosen language. These people were extremely irritating to work with because they refused to look past the minimal advantage that you derive from working in language a,b or c. The stuff most of us create could be implemented in just about any language without anything close to the kind of 'slowing down' that you allude to, it all boils down to how well you know your language and the environment you operate in, as well as knowledge about the domain you are building your work for. In my experience the choice of language has a relatively small impact on the speed of the initial build and the quality of that build. Over a longer term for less than rocket science style projects it is far more important to have good documentation and a supply of reasonably competent coders than that it is important to do your project in any one specific language. Of course, there are languages such as brainfuck and a bunch of others that you'd do well to avoid for many reasons but I take it we're limiting the discussion to the top 10 languages used to build everyday applications and web-apps, say Java, C++, Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, C# and whichever won't spring to mind at the moment.
nostrademons 16y ago
I think there's more than one kind of language snob out there. Some of them have never programmed in more than one language, and so naturally think that language is the best. Some don't regularly program in any language, and take whatever fad du jour is on Reddit as gospel. But others have programmed in lots of languages, and have tried the languages in question, and that's why they think it sucks. It can be difficult to tell them apart. But one way is to look at the depth of their criticisms, and how many of those criticisms you've heard before. If they say the same things everyone else says, chances are they're talking out of their ass. But if they can come up with unique, detailed, insightful reasons why a particular language sucks, it's pretty likely that they've used it extensively and have some idea what they're talking about.
- mcpherrinm 16y ago
  Well put. I've seen many people who will be quick to jump and say Java|C++|PHP|Ruby|Python|C# is the BEST AT EVERYTHING EVER because the Internet tutorial they took told them so. These people are so common that having opinions on a language is something that you actually need to be careful what remarks casually about, lest you be branded an uninformed idiotic language bigot. Most languages in wide use are there for a reason, but that doesn't mean any and all opinions on them are invalid.
  - nocipher 16y ago
    I'm not sure if it's an oversight or intentional but you didn't mention Lisp, which is, for many "snobs", the language of choice.
    - xyzzyz 16y ago
      He should have mentioned Lisp, along with some other languages. However, I don't know how intentional that was, but he only mentioned languages used by the first kind of snobs -- those who are not familiar with great number of tools. Of course, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm sure that average Lisp, Smalltalk or Haskell programmer have used more languages than average C++, Java or PHP.

by jules 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago

I've used quite a few languages and even though I see the flaws I just shrug and get on with the job at hand, re-writing something because a code base is not written in 'your' language is the mark of a pretty inflexible programmer. A language snob is someone who derives a feeling of superiority from the language they use, in reality the tools matter a lot less than language snobs will have you believe. I've worked with lots of people over the years, and some of them were all-out snobs about 'their' chosen language. These people were extremely irritating to work with because they refused to look past the minimal advantage that you derive from working in language a,b or c. The stuff most of us create could be implemented in just about any language without anything close to the kind of 'slowing down' that you allude to, it all boils down to how well you know your language and the environment you operate in, as well as knowledge about the domain you are building your work for. In my experience the choice of language has a relatively small impact on the speed of the initial build and the quality of that build. Over a longer term for less than rocket science style projects it is far more important to have good documentation and a supply of reasonably competent coders than that it is important to do your project in any one specific language. Of course, there are languages such as brainfuck and a bunch of others that you'd do well to avoid for many reasons but I take it we're limiting the discussion to the top 10 languages used to build everyday applications and web-apps, say Java, C++, Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, C# and whichever won't spring to mind at the moment.

nostrademons 16y ago

I think there's more than one kind of language snob out there. Some of them have never programmed in more than one language, and so naturally think that language is the best. Some don't regularly program in any language, and take whatever fad du jour is on Reddit as gospel. But others have programmed in lots of languages, and have tried the languages in question, and that's why they think it sucks. It can be difficult to tell them apart. But one way is to look at the depth of their criticisms, and how many of those criticisms you've heard before. If they say the same things everyone else says, chances are they're talking out of their ass. But if they can come up with unique, detailed, insightful reasons why a particular language sucks, it's pretty likely that they've used it extensively and have some idea what they're talking about.

mcpherrinm 16y ago
Well put. I've seen many people who will be quick to jump and say Java|C++|PHP|Ruby|Python|C# is the BEST AT EVERYTHING EVER because the Internet tutorial they took told them so. These people are so common that having opinions on a language is something that you actually need to be careful what remarks casually about, lest you be branded an uninformed idiotic language bigot. Most languages in wide use are there for a reason, but that doesn't mean any and all opinions on them are invalid.
- nocipher 16y ago
  I'm not sure if it's an oversight or intentional but you didn't mention Lisp, which is, for many "snobs", the language of choice.
  - xyzzyz 16y ago
    He should have mentioned Lisp, along with some other languages. However, I don't know how intentional that was, but he only mentioned languages used by the first kind of snobs -- those who are not familiar with great number of tools. Of course, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm sure that average Lisp, Smalltalk or Haskell programmer have used more languages than average C++, Java or PHP.