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Your anologies are all wrong. Its like trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. It's like a grocery store being closed because one of the manufacturers produ

Your anologies are all wrong. Its like trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. It's like a grocery store being closed because one of the manufacturers products was bad. Its like burning down a house to kill a mouse. Its like if someone created ads on Hacker News for prostitution and the government shut down the entire site. Its like targeting the INTERNET instead of the actual HUMAN TRAFFICKERS.... These sensational news reports are a distraction from SESTA a really freaky law that allows the govt to bring criminal action against a sites owners for content they deem innappropriate...its already affected numerous sites beyond backpage. Our civil liberties and the internet have been grossly eroded by SESTA and its sad to see the day when the government can shut sites down at their leisure.

creddit 9y ago
I'm not reasoning through analogies like yours. I was reasoning from principles. Your analogies might be nice sound bites but don't have much value in describing the world. Your problems with SESTA may be valid but that's a completely separate question from whether or not shutting backpage down would limit human trafficking. You're arguing from mood affiliation (that SESTA is bad and therefore anything associated with it is bad) and not against the principles.
- nickthemagicman 9y ago
  You're arguing from poor statistics. Backpage was the second largest classifieds ads service on the internet. Thousands+ of ads per week... It blows my mind that people are fine with destroying the foundation of the free internet for something that's a minor statistical outlier drop in the bucket of activities on these sites no matter how horrible the activity may be. In related news we've been spending 7.6 billion a year on the TSA after 9.11 to prevent terrorism....
  - creddit 9y ago
    It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The proportion of that site's activities that are related to illegal activities is completely irrelevant. It may be that 0.001% of the classifieds on Backpage were human trafficking related but if that made up even 10% of human trafficking cases this is a slam dunk success in terms of stopping human trafficking. In related news we've been spending 7.6 billion a year on the TSA after 9.11 to prevent terrorism.... True and that's a terrible waste of money but completely unrelated to this. It blows my mind that someone thinks allowing terrible illegal activity in the name of some mysterious concept of internet freedom is a good thing. Certainly you don't seem particularly concerned with the freedom of those being trafficked in the physical world.
    - nickthemagicman 9y ago
      Terrorism and Human Trafficking are related in the sense that they're tiny statistical blips.. miniscule drops in the ocean of human activities. However they sound so horrible that people are perfectly willing to sacrifice massive civil liberties to stop them. They have a 'mood affililation' and will do anything to stop these activities without looking at the principles of what they're doing. I'm concerned about the freedom of those being trafficked..I just think theres other ways to help them that don't involve eroding the foundation of the free web.
jakelazaroff 9y ago
Backpage was knowingly colluding with sex traffickers. So, to fix your grocery store analogy, it's more like shutting down a grocery store who was intentionally distributing known bad products from a manufacturer. It's not like "targeting the Internet instead of the actual human traffickers"; they are the actual human traffickers. Also, Backpage wasn't shut down under SESTA; SESTA hadn't yet passed when the site was taken down.
- nickthemagicman 9y ago
  False. NUMEROUS other sex worker sites have been taken down including reddit removing its sex worker sub. So are we targeting human trafficking or are we targeting prostitution? To use my grocery store analogy its like if one box of cheerios was bad closing down every single grocery store in the country to prevent people from eating bad cheerios then passing a law saying the govt can shut down any grocery it wants in the future on suspicion of bad cheerios.... Heavy handed...
  - jakelazaroff 9y ago
    Not false. Backpage was taken down on April 6th [1][2] while SESTA wasn't signed until April 11th [3][4]. It's okay to oppose SESTA, but that's not what this is about. [1] http://www.backpage.com/ http://www.backpage.com/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-backpage-justice/sex-ads-website-backpage-shut-down-by-u-s-authorities-idUSKCN1HD2QP https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-backpage-justice/sex-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_... [4] https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/trump-signs-fosta-sesta-bill-into-law/ https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/trump-signs-fosta-sesta-...
    - nickthemagicman 9y ago
      Im saying your anology was false because NUMEROUS other sites have been taken down recently beyond just backpage in the name of 'stopping human trafficking'. It's like backdooring encryption to 'prevent terrorism'.

creddit 9y ago

I'm not reasoning through analogies like yours. I was reasoning from principles. Your analogies might be nice sound bites but don't have much value in describing the world. Your problems with SESTA may be valid but that's a completely separate question from whether or not shutting backpage down would limit human trafficking. You're arguing from mood affiliation (that SESTA is bad and therefore anything associated with it is bad) and not against the principles.

nickthemagicman 9y ago
You're arguing from poor statistics. Backpage was the second largest classifieds ads service on the internet. Thousands+ of ads per week... It blows my mind that people are fine with destroying the foundation of the free internet for something that's a minor statistical outlier drop in the bucket of activities on these sites no matter how horrible the activity may be. In related news we've been spending 7.6 billion a year on the TSA after 9.11 to prevent terrorism....
- creddit 9y ago
  It was involved in 73 percent of all child trafficking cases reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The proportion of that site's activities that are related to illegal activities is completely irrelevant. It may be that 0.001% of the classifieds on Backpage were human trafficking related but if that made up even 10% of human trafficking cases this is a slam dunk success in terms of stopping human trafficking. In related news we've been spending 7.6 billion a year on the TSA after 9.11 to prevent terrorism.... True and that's a terrible waste of money but completely unrelated to this. It blows my mind that someone thinks allowing terrible illegal activity in the name of some mysterious concept of internet freedom is a good thing. Certainly you don't seem particularly concerned with the freedom of those being trafficked in the physical world.
  - nickthemagicman 9y ago
    Terrorism and Human Trafficking are related in the sense that they're tiny statistical blips.. miniscule drops in the ocean of human activities. However they sound so horrible that people are perfectly willing to sacrifice massive civil liberties to stop them. They have a 'mood affililation' and will do anything to stop these activities without looking at the principles of what they're doing. I'm concerned about the freedom of those being trafficked..I just think theres other ways to help them that don't involve eroding the foundation of the free web.

jakelazaroff 9y ago

Backpage was knowingly colluding with sex traffickers. So, to fix your grocery store analogy, it's more like shutting down a grocery store who was intentionally distributing known bad products from a manufacturer. It's not like "targeting the Internet instead of the actual human traffickers"; they are the actual human traffickers. Also, Backpage wasn't shut down under SESTA; SESTA hadn't yet passed when the site was taken down.

nickthemagicman 9y ago
False. NUMEROUS other sex worker sites have been taken down including reddit removing its sex worker sub. So are we targeting human trafficking or are we targeting prostitution? To use my grocery store analogy its like if one box of cheerios was bad closing down every single grocery store in the country to prevent people from eating bad cheerios then passing a law saying the govt can shut down any grocery it wants in the future on suspicion of bad cheerios.... Heavy handed...
- jakelazaroff 9y ago
  Not false. Backpage was taken down on April 6th [1][2] while SESTA wasn't signed until April 11th [3][4]. It's okay to oppose SESTA, but that's not what this is about. [1] http://www.backpage.com/ http://www.backpage.com/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-backpage-justice/sex-ads-website-backpage-shut-down-by-u-s-authorities-idUSKCN1HD2QP https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-backpage-justice/sex-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_... [4] https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/trump-signs-fosta-sesta-bill-into-law/ https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/trump-signs-fosta-sesta-...
  - nickthemagicman 9y ago
    Im saying your anology was false because NUMEROUS other sites have been taken down recently beyond just backpage in the name of 'stopping human trafficking'. It's like backdooring encryption to 'prevent terrorism'.