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Actually, I saw lots of people defending backpage. It is some sort of new age leftist thing, where the argument is that backpage somehow made things safer for

by stale2002 9y ago

Actually, I saw lots of people defending backpage. It is some sort of new age leftist thing, where the argument is that backpage somehow made things safer for sex workers.

williamscales 9y ago
I believe there is a valid argument that giving sex workers a platform where they can advertise relatively safely improves their safety. I, for one, did not really research Backpage that much and so was unaware of the reality of the allegations against them. For myself, I chose not to weigh in on the debate, even though I have the belief I stated above, because I didn't feel I had enough background.
andymoe 9y ago
No, this is the actual sex workers saying “places like backpage, where I can vet clients ahead of time, keeps me safer.”
- oep2929 9y ago
  The issue is when the only choice is “poke or be broke” it’s time to rethink our culture We’re all forced to sell our time but what we have to offer varies You wanna suck dick for a meal? You hiring people without tech skills? There’s a whole lot of “sucking it up” for a lot of women with little choice but to “suck for survival”
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    So you think if we had a better social safety net like say, the Netherlands, we would see less prostitution?
    - noobermin 9y ago
      Not speaking for the green account, but, yes, I think improving the economic standing of all people would go a long way towards getting people out of the sex trade or from entering into it.
      - loggedinmyphone 9y ago
        I'm pretty sure the comment you responded to was sarcasm, given the prevalence of red light districts in the Netherlands.
- stale2002 9y ago
  Yes, I'm sure it works great for the upper middle class white escorts who are essentially small business owners. The issue is the effect that it has on trafficking, and that it makes trafficking much more profitable.
  - noobermin 9y ago
    Instead of making assumptions about the people you believe you're saving, it would help to actually listen to them about what would help them and what wouldn't. Above I share an article from a former sex worker. Here is yet another that cites[0] sex workers as well. [0] https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/sesta-anti-sex-trafficking-bill-fosta.html https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/sesta-anti-sex-trafficking-bi...
    - deft 9y ago
      how does that link invalidate the parent comment? No more details on who is saying "backpage is good". And I almost guarantee sex-trafficked women aren't the ones defending it. So why don't we listen to the victims of the crime the bill is about: sex-trafficking. NOT prostitution.
      - girvo 9y ago
        But they didn’t even need the damned bill to nail the Backpage owners. So what’s the point of the SESTA power grab?
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        The point of the FOSTA power grabs is to make it easy to go after sites providing arms-length escort information with no or only incidental connection to trafficking and with none of the ancillary (money laundering, etc.) offenses in the Backpage or MyRedbook cases. SESTA seems mostly to function as a smokescreen for FOSTA (since it drives all the media attention to it and it's knowing involvement in trafficking requirement).
  - lilililili 9y ago
- AFNobody 9y ago
  The thing is they weren't defending Backpage but Craigslist (among others) that shut down due to new legislation. I don't think anyone was really defending Backpage (the site itself, rather than the broker function) in any real numbers.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
chc 9y ago
Do you think backpage is actually less safe than working with a pimp? A place can be pretty bad and still preferable to the alternative if that alternative is bad enough.
- pharrington 9y ago
  No. Turns out that question is irrelevant, because Backpage and pimps were empirically compatible.
  - chc 9y ago
    You're drawing a false dilemma here. The question isn't "Was it possible for pimps to go on Backpage?" but "How easy was it to work without a pimp on Backpage versus on the street?" That's the argument people were making — not that nothing bad ever happened where Backpage was involved, but that sex workers feel more required to put themselves in bad situations in the absence of something like Backpage.
    - jakelazaroff 9y ago
      Likewise, the argument that people who support the takedown are making isn't "it was possible to use Backpage for prostitution", but "Backpage themselves were actively colluding with human traffickers". Maybe sex workers are less safe now that Backpage is gone, and that sucks — but it doesn't mean we let people working with human traffickers slide.
      - chc 9y ago
        If you look back a bit in the thread, the idea that I was disagreeing with is that this proves people were wrong when they said Backpage made many sex workers safer. I'm not saying we should let the Backpage people slide, but that the ideas "Backpage was involved in some very messed-up stuff that people should go to jail for" and "Backpage was better than the streets for sex workers on the whole" can both be true simultaneously.
- paxys 9y ago

Actually, I saw lots of people defending backpage. It is some sort of new age leftist thing, where the argument is that backpage somehow made things safer for sex workers.

williamscales 9y ago

I believe there is a valid argument that giving sex workers a platform where they can advertise relatively safely improves their safety. I, for one, did not really research Backpage that much and so was unaware of the reality of the allegations against them. For myself, I chose not to weigh in on the debate, even though I have the belief I stated above, because I didn't feel I had enough background.

andymoe 9y ago

No, this is the actual sex workers saying “places like backpage, where I can vet clients ahead of time, keeps me safer.”

oep2929 9y ago
The issue is when the only choice is “poke or be broke” it’s time to rethink our culture We’re all forced to sell our time but what we have to offer varies You wanna suck dick for a meal? You hiring people without tech skills? There’s a whole lot of “sucking it up” for a lot of women with little choice but to “suck for survival”
- jjeaff 9y ago
  So you think if we had a better social safety net like say, the Netherlands, we would see less prostitution?
  - noobermin 9y ago
    Not speaking for the green account, but, yes, I think improving the economic standing of all people would go a long way towards getting people out of the sex trade or from entering into it.
    - loggedinmyphone 9y ago
      I'm pretty sure the comment you responded to was sarcasm, given the prevalence of red light districts in the Netherlands.
stale2002 9y ago
Yes, I'm sure it works great for the upper middle class white escorts who are essentially small business owners. The issue is the effect that it has on trafficking, and that it makes trafficking much more profitable.
- noobermin 9y ago
  Instead of making assumptions about the people you believe you're saving, it would help to actually listen to them about what would help them and what wouldn't. Above I share an article from a former sex worker. Here is yet another that cites[0] sex workers as well. [0] https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/sesta-anti-sex-trafficking-bill-fosta.html https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/sesta-anti-sex-trafficking-bi...
  - deft 9y ago
    how does that link invalidate the parent comment? No more details on who is saying "backpage is good". And I almost guarantee sex-trafficked women aren't the ones defending it. So why don't we listen to the victims of the crime the bill is about: sex-trafficking. NOT prostitution.
    - girvo 9y ago
      But they didn’t even need the damned bill to nail the Backpage owners. So what’s the point of the SESTA power grab?
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        The point of the FOSTA power grabs is to make it easy to go after sites providing arms-length escort information with no or only incidental connection to trafficking and with none of the ancillary (money laundering, etc.) offenses in the Backpage or MyRedbook cases. SESTA seems mostly to function as a smokescreen for FOSTA (since it drives all the media attention to it and it's knowing involvement in trafficking requirement).
- lilililili 9y ago
AFNobody 9y ago
The thing is they weren't defending Backpage but Craigslist (among others) that shut down due to new legislation. I don't think anyone was really defending Backpage (the site itself, rather than the broker function) in any real numbers.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

chc 9y ago

Do you think backpage is actually less safe than working with a pimp? A place can be pretty bad and still preferable to the alternative if that alternative is bad enough.

pharrington 9y ago
No. Turns out that question is irrelevant, because Backpage and pimps were empirically compatible.
- chc 9y ago
  You're drawing a false dilemma here. The question isn't "Was it possible for pimps to go on Backpage?" but "How easy was it to work without a pimp on Backpage versus on the street?" That's the argument people were making — not that nothing bad ever happened where Backpage was involved, but that sex workers feel more required to put themselves in bad situations in the absence of something like Backpage.
  - jakelazaroff 9y ago
    Likewise, the argument that people who support the takedown are making isn't "it was possible to use Backpage for prostitution", but "Backpage themselves were actively colluding with human traffickers". Maybe sex workers are less safe now that Backpage is gone, and that sucks — but it doesn't mean we let people working with human traffickers slide.
    - chc 9y ago
      If you look back a bit in the thread, the idea that I was disagreeing with is that this proves people were wrong when they said Backpage made many sex workers safer. I'm not saying we should let the Backpage people slide, but that the ideas "Backpage was involved in some very messed-up stuff that people should go to jail for" and "Backpage was better than the streets for sex workers on the whole" can both be true simultaneously.
paxys 9y ago