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Van Eck phreaking came to mind immediately - which wouldn't require any remotely malicious code to be run. Anyone with more knowledge than myself know if Van Ec

Van Eck phreaking came to mind immediately - which wouldn't require any remotely malicious code to be run. Anyone with more knowledge than myself know if Van Eck phreaking is still an attack vector on modern technology?

skykooler 9y ago
High pixel density of modern screens makes it very difficult to reconstruct the signal. That, combined with the fact that LCD displays are far less susceptible than CRT displays, makes it virtually irrelevant for many new displays. Exceptions may include TVs, which use much more power per pixel, and lower-resolution screens like those on netbooks, though now that even phones have >1080p screens these are much less common.
- SEJeff 9y ago
  very difficult against a state actor with effectively unlimited budget?
  - roywiggins 9y ago
    What are the odds that there isn't some other, easier way? It's not that it is necessarily impossible, but if it's really quite difficult, it might not ever happen just because there's always some other, easier way. Even if you have an effectively unlimited budget.
    - debt 9y ago
      It’s likely that whomever exploits this would do both easier way and this way. This one is particularly great because an air gap is assumed by default to be very secure. So you may think things are fine and dandy cause you gotta fancy lil air gap but lo and behold your data has been exfiltrated through the power lines for years.
      - 21 9y ago
        NSA has very strict power filtering rules for their Red/Black systems. Their building is covered in a copper Faraday cage. They also have a double outer shell, with space between the two walls, where speakers play white noise. All this is public knowledge for many decades now. Food for thought. If anyone is surprised by power line exfiltration they just didn't do a basic google search.
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        > If anyone is surprised by power line exfiltration they just didn't do a basic google search. Or still thinks that computers are magic or that electricity is binary (either on or off).
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- busterarm 9y ago
  This is somewhat untrue and physical connections between laptop motherboard and display are often poorly shielded and broadcast your display (think of every physical connection as an antenna). Sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9yUiAHiFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9yUiAHiFo This talk is old and we've advanced a fair bit since then.
  - carapace 9y ago
    s/Sauce/Source/ ;-)
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      It's probably an intentional misspelling ;). It's been popular on Reddit for some time now.
      - carapace 9y ago
        ...and this isn't Reddit, or Imgur (where I first encountered it.) I just thought some of us old fogeys might could use the tip. (Y'know, if we're not 1337 enough...)
    - zaarn 9y ago
      A claim without sauce is like Italian noodle without source. (I'm fairly certain it's intentional, I do it a lot too)
    - wybiral 9y ago
      What you meant to say was "replace 'sauce' with 'source'" but ironically you used a meme to critique someone else's use of a meme.
      - carapace 9y ago
        Y'all did see the winking smiley emoticon, eh? (I really was just trying to fill in the blanks for anyone who hadn't encountered "sauce" as internet slang for "source" aka "provenance" yet. Given the responses though it feels like I accidentally trolled. Please excuse me. ;-)
scottie_m 9y ago
They very much are, although in somewhat different ways. https://www.engadget.com/2007/04/21/laptops-and-flat-panels-also-vulnerable-to-van-eck-eavesdropping/ https://www.engadget.com/2007/04/21/laptops-and-flat-panels-... Markus Kuhn has since discovered that by tuning into the radio emissions produced by the cables running into a monitor, hackers can garner the pixels one at a time, and carefully stack them together to form a picture of someone else's screen. Reportedly, Markus was able to "see a PowerPoint presentation from a stand 25 meters away (pictured)," and he also noted that laptops with metal hinges were particularly good targets as they tended to broadcast the necessary signals quite well. One of my favorite elements of The Laundry Files series, is the old spook who only uses a Memex machine because of van Eck phreaking.
- satori99 9y ago
  > One of my favorite elements of The Laundry Files series, is the old spook who only uses a Memex machine because of van Eck phreaking. There is a scene in Neal Stephensons novel Cryptonomicon (1999), where the protagonist accesses his laptops data by manipulating the scroll-lock LED using Morse-code, as he is fairly certain he is being van-eck phreaked.
  - kfrzcode 9y ago
    This book is fantastic.
  - RandallBrown 9y ago
    When I read about Van Eck Phreaking in that book I thought for sure it was just some nonsense for the book. Couldn't believe it was real. That book was pretty amazing. It's hard to believe a book about cryptocurrency was released all the way back in 1999.
DINKDINK 9y ago
TEMPEST[1] / Van Eck threats are still prevalent. All EMF is going to leak information so sensitive devices have shielding when they are under elevated threat. See the government-grade shielding on Trump's monitor here: https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2017/11/trumps-communications-equipment-outside.html https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2017/11/trumps-communicat... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
relyio 9y ago
It came to mind but it's reversed versus the process exposed in PowerHammer

skykooler 9y ago

High pixel density of modern screens makes it very difficult to reconstruct the signal. That, combined with the fact that LCD displays are far less susceptible than CRT displays, makes it virtually irrelevant for many new displays. Exceptions may include TVs, which use much more power per pixel, and lower-resolution screens like those on netbooks, though now that even phones have >1080p screens these are much less common.

SEJeff 9y ago
very difficult against a state actor with effectively unlimited budget?
- roywiggins 9y ago
  What are the odds that there isn't some other, easier way? It's not that it is necessarily impossible, but if it's really quite difficult, it might not ever happen just because there's always some other, easier way. Even if you have an effectively unlimited budget.
  - debt 9y ago
    It’s likely that whomever exploits this would do both easier way and this way. This one is particularly great because an air gap is assumed by default to be very secure. So you may think things are fine and dandy cause you gotta fancy lil air gap but lo and behold your data has been exfiltrated through the power lines for years.
    - 21 9y ago
      NSA has very strict power filtering rules for their Red/Black systems. Their building is covered in a copper Faraday cage. They also have a double outer shell, with space between the two walls, where speakers play white noise. All this is public knowledge for many decades now. Food for thought. If anyone is surprised by power line exfiltration they just didn't do a basic google search.
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        > If anyone is surprised by power line exfiltration they just didn't do a basic google search. Or still thinks that computers are magic or that electricity is binary (either on or off).
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
busterarm 9y ago
This is somewhat untrue and physical connections between laptop motherboard and display are often poorly shielded and broadcast your display (think of every physical connection as an antenna). Sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9yUiAHiFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g9yUiAHiFo This talk is old and we've advanced a fair bit since then.
- carapace 9y ago
  s/Sauce/Source/ ;-)
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    It's probably an intentional misspelling ;). It's been popular on Reddit for some time now.
    - carapace 9y ago
      ...and this isn't Reddit, or Imgur (where I first encountered it.) I just thought some of us old fogeys might could use the tip. (Y'know, if we're not 1337 enough...)
  - zaarn 9y ago
    A claim without sauce is like Italian noodle without source. (I'm fairly certain it's intentional, I do it a lot too)
  - wybiral 9y ago
    What you meant to say was "replace 'sauce' with 'source'" but ironically you used a meme to critique someone else's use of a meme.
    - carapace 9y ago
      Y'all did see the winking smiley emoticon, eh? (I really was just trying to fill in the blanks for anyone who hadn't encountered "sauce" as internet slang for "source" aka "provenance" yet. Given the responses though it feels like I accidentally trolled. Please excuse me. ;-)

scottie_m 9y ago

They very much are, although in somewhat different ways. https://www.engadget.com/2007/04/21/laptops-and-flat-panels-also-vulnerable-to-van-eck-eavesdropping/ https://www.engadget.com/2007/04/21/laptops-and-flat-panels-... Markus Kuhn has since discovered that by tuning into the radio emissions produced by the cables running into a monitor, hackers can garner the pixels one at a time, and carefully stack them together to form a picture of someone else's screen. Reportedly, Markus was able to "see a PowerPoint presentation from a stand 25 meters away (pictured)," and he also noted that laptops with metal hinges were particularly good targets as they tended to broadcast the necessary signals quite well. One of my favorite elements of The Laundry Files series, is the old spook who only uses a Memex machine because of van Eck phreaking.

satori99 9y ago
> One of my favorite elements of The Laundry Files series, is the old spook who only uses a Memex machine because of van Eck phreaking. There is a scene in Neal Stephensons novel Cryptonomicon (1999), where the protagonist accesses his laptops data by manipulating the scroll-lock LED using Morse-code, as he is fairly certain he is being van-eck phreaked.
- kfrzcode 9y ago
  This book is fantastic.
- RandallBrown 9y ago
  When I read about Van Eck Phreaking in that book I thought for sure it was just some nonsense for the book. Couldn't believe it was real. That book was pretty amazing. It's hard to believe a book about cryptocurrency was released all the way back in 1999.

DINKDINK 9y ago

TEMPEST[1] / Van Eck threats are still prevalent. All EMF is going to leak information so sensitive devices have shielding when they are under elevated threat. See the government-grade shielding on Trump's monitor here: https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2017/11/trumps-communications-equipment-outside.html https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2017/11/trumps-communicat... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)

relyio 9y ago

It came to mind but it's reversed versus the process exposed in PowerHammer