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More missing: - Likes on everything I liked on FB and external - Shares via Share Buttons on external websites - Websites I visited and where I was tracked b

by WA 9y ago

More missing: - Likes on everything I liked on FB and external - Shares via Share Buttons on external websites - Websites I visited and where I was tracked because of Social Media buttons - Time spent on FB - Status updates I changed or dismissed - Mouse hovering behavior to train the feed - Data like my phone number that wasn’t put there by me but correlated through my friends address books - Metadata through WhatsApp acquisition - ...

icedchai 9y ago
Do you really think they're obligated to provide you absolutely everything they know about you? I don't. I would say if they provide everything you've directly provided, they've fulfilled their "obligation." Obligation is in quotes, because I don't actually believe they should even be required to do this.
- abalone 9y ago
  > I would say if they provide everything you've directly provided, they've fulfilled their "obligation." Post likes, shares and search history are all examples of data you've directly provided that they're omitting from the export. As for your principles, when you ask the FBI for their file on you their obligation is not limited to data you've directly provided.
  - icedchai 9y ago
    According to https://www.facebook.com/help/405183566203254?helpref=faq_content https://www.facebook.com/help/405183566203254?helpref=faq_co... likes, shares, and searches are included. The FBI is subject to FOIA. FB is not, obviously.
    - abalone 9y ago
      No, that actually says it's not included in the Downloaded Info. It's in the Activity Log, which is omitted from the download. This is not obvious and misleading. In fact someone asked whether they could download their activity and Facebook directed them to the Downloaded Info, which omits it.[1] As for FOIA, you're missing the point. Of course FB is not subject to such a law. The whole debate right now is whether it should be. If you request an organization's "file" on you, it should be comprehensive and not selectively omit the creepiest stuff. [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=634556393223841 https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=6345563...
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"Do you really think they're obligated to provide you absolutely everything they know about you?" I would say no if before you signed up they were willing to tell you everything they "intend" to collect about once you agree. And when I say "tell you" I mean an itemized list in plain simple english not a thousand pages of obfuscated legalese.
- DonaldFisk 9y ago
  If you've directly provided Facebook with some information, you could have recorded this at the time, so their telling you they know that is something you could have figured out for yourself as it's no more than a reminder of what you've already told them. If that's all the law requires them to do then it either needs to be repealed as it's practically toothless, or amended so that they're obliged to tell you more.
- ghaydarov 9y ago
  If I did not directly provided them with my data, they would have stolen it. So, yes, I think they have to provide and delete upon my request.
  - DonaldFisk 9y ago
    They might have deduced it from other data they have obtained legitimately, but as it's still data about you they have, they should tell you it and if it's incorrect you should be able to ask them to delete it.
toufka 9y ago
From Mark's testimony yesterday, it seems like the above attributes are not your data, but FB's data about you - to which you are not entitled. "You own your data" means any messages, photos, and posts you write you keep your copyright to, and FB will make those data easily exportable. But any metadata, or any usage data is not actually your data, Facebook currently contends. Nor is any data about you that Facebook has, acquired, or purchased.
- WA 9y ago
  Status updates I composed but redacted but were captured from their key logger is my data. My likes are my data, because that is what the whole Cambridge Analytica thing is about (deriving a personality model from Likes). My search history is my data, because it helps to identify me as a person. My phone number they obtained through my friends uploading their contact list is my data. Clearly, I’m not entitled to all data, but to a lot more than what’s in that archive. Edit: And of course, if they have a shadow profile on you without you having an account (like your phone number and your name through the address book your friend uploaded), that is all your data, processed without your consent and without a way for you to get hold of.
  - shostack 9y ago
    >"Status updates I composed but redacted but were captured from their key logger is my data." This seems like an important one. If they log all those messages, presumably they should all be there with some indication of status (deleted, published, etc.). I can only imagine the sensitive things contained in that dataset... Things like mistakenly pasted plaintext passwords, PII, etc.
- abalone 9y ago
  Except the archive contains ads topics, ads engagement history, advertisers who uploaded a contact list with your info, and account login activity, none of which qualify as copyrighted content that you shared. That's private usage data and data about you that Facebook acquired. Facebook is being selective in what they export here. The result is a misleading impression about what data they have on you.
sschueller 9y ago
Would be a neat little project to try to scrape your own data out of Facebook.

by WA 9y ago

icedchai 9y ago

Do you really think they're obligated to provide you absolutely everything they know about you? I don't. I would say if they provide everything you've directly provided, they've fulfilled their "obligation." Obligation is in quotes, because I don't actually believe they should even be required to do this.

abalone 9y ago
> I would say if they provide everything you've directly provided, they've fulfilled their "obligation." Post likes, shares and search history are all examples of data you've directly provided that they're omitting from the export. As for your principles, when you ask the FBI for their file on you their obligation is not limited to data you've directly provided.
- icedchai 9y ago
  According to https://www.facebook.com/help/405183566203254?helpref=faq_content https://www.facebook.com/help/405183566203254?helpref=faq_co... likes, shares, and searches are included. The FBI is subject to FOIA. FB is not, obviously.
  - abalone 9y ago
    No, that actually says it's not included in the Downloaded Info. It's in the Activity Log, which is omitted from the download. This is not obvious and misleading. In fact someone asked whether they could download their activity and Facebook directed them to the Downloaded Info, which omits it.[1] As for FOIA, you're missing the point. Of course FB is not subject to such a law. The whole debate right now is whether it should be. If you request an organization's "file" on you, it should be comprehensive and not selectively omit the creepiest stuff. [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=634556393223841 https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=6345563...
bogomipz 9y ago
>"Do you really think they're obligated to provide you absolutely everything they know about you?" I would say no if before you signed up they were willing to tell you everything they "intend" to collect about once you agree. And when I say "tell you" I mean an itemized list in plain simple english not a thousand pages of obfuscated legalese.
DonaldFisk 9y ago
If you've directly provided Facebook with some information, you could have recorded this at the time, so their telling you they know that is something you could have figured out for yourself as it's no more than a reminder of what you've already told them. If that's all the law requires them to do then it either needs to be repealed as it's practically toothless, or amended so that they're obliged to tell you more.
ghaydarov 9y ago
If I did not directly provided them with my data, they would have stolen it. So, yes, I think they have to provide and delete upon my request.
- DonaldFisk 9y ago
  They might have deduced it from other data they have obtained legitimately, but as it's still data about you they have, they should tell you it and if it's incorrect you should be able to ask them to delete it.

toufka 9y ago

From Mark's testimony yesterday, it seems like the above attributes are not your data, but FB's data about you - to which you are not entitled. "You own your data" means any messages, photos, and posts you write you keep your copyright to, and FB will make those data easily exportable. But any metadata, or any usage data is not actually your data, Facebook currently contends. Nor is any data about you that Facebook has, acquired, or purchased.

WA 9y ago
Status updates I composed but redacted but were captured from their key logger is my data. My likes are my data, because that is what the whole Cambridge Analytica thing is about (deriving a personality model from Likes). My search history is my data, because it helps to identify me as a person. My phone number they obtained through my friends uploading their contact list is my data. Clearly, I’m not entitled to all data, but to a lot more than what’s in that archive. Edit: And of course, if they have a shadow profile on you without you having an account (like your phone number and your name through the address book your friend uploaded), that is all your data, processed without your consent and without a way for you to get hold of.
- shostack 9y ago
  >"Status updates I composed but redacted but were captured from their key logger is my data." This seems like an important one. If they log all those messages, presumably they should all be there with some indication of status (deleted, published, etc.). I can only imagine the sensitive things contained in that dataset... Things like mistakenly pasted plaintext passwords, PII, etc.
abalone 9y ago
Except the archive contains ads topics, ads engagement history, advertisers who uploaded a contact list with your info, and account login activity, none of which qualify as copyrighted content that you shared. That's private usage data and data about you that Facebook acquired. Facebook is being selective in what they export here. The result is a misleading impression about what data they have on you.

sschueller 9y ago

Would be a neat little project to try to scrape your own data out of Facebook.