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Obama promised "if you like your insurance you can keep it". However what wasn't said is "if hate your insurance you have no choice but to keep it". I don't lik

by NickM 9y ago

Obama promised "if you like your insurance you can keep it". However what wasn't said is "if hate your insurance you have no choice but to keep it". I don't like my insurance, but since I otherwise like my job there is nothing I can do about it. To be fair, this was a worse problem prior to Obamacare. At least now we have the exchanges, and companies can't deny you coverage for preexisting conditions. I agree with what you're saying, and the current system certainly has big problems, I just don't think you can blame Obama for that.

bluGill 9y ago
I blame Obama for not fixing it. You are correct about problems with the old system, but since I had insurance that didn't affect me.
- smt88 9y ago
  Obama couldn't fix anything because he was the president and he couldn't make laws. He barely even had the political clout to get ACA passed. The blame is on Congress.
- DesiLurker 9y ago
  the healthcare reform was a result of complicated partisan maneuvering to get over the finish line. many of those bandaids people complain about are a direct result of strong republican opposition. so much so that the final bill that passed was nowhere near what obama or anyone wanted. Blaming Obama and not the opposition in congress for any of this mess is really shortsighted. if you really want to know the gory details of this process and healthcare in america read the excellent book by Steve brill:America's Bitter Pill. and one more thing, you had insurance now but what happens in you lose your job or god forbid take a break for a few month to care for somebody.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    Irrelevant since he never tried to fix the problem. He did try for the other problems, and there was a lot of opposition.
    - DesiLurker 9y ago
      are you trolling? if you are serious about finding out read the book, he explains the horsetrading that was needed to pass the bill. for a complex bill like that you cannot take one thing in isolation and complain you have to look at the context. Also, again, its congress not him. if you are gonna complain, complain about republicans that kept watering down the obamacare under bad faith negotiations (though eventually it passed without any red support).
  - joe_fro 9y ago
    The Democrats passed the bill in the senate 60-39, with 2 independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against. Then that bill was passed in the house with a vote of 219–212 with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it. This wasn't partisan, this was Democrats passing a bill without any Republican votes. The band-aids were to get moderate Democrats on board. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Healthcare_debate,_2008%E2%80%9310 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...
    - NickM 8y ago
      Lieberman singlehandedly killed the public option, though. Obamacare would have looked very different if that had survived.
- burntwater 9y ago
  I think you can be disappointed Obama wasn't able to fix it. But blaming him for something that ultimately involves thousands of politicians and special interest groups is, I feel, unfair.
  - jknoepfler 9y ago
    a much better question would be "who in congress was responsible for our not being able to crate modern public healthcare system?" The answer is certainly not the liberal/progressive wing of the Democratic party. The existing policy is a compromise that liberals signed off on to improve the conditions of the worst off, but they were not able to create the kind of conceptually coherent total overhaul we would require to make the system rational. I agree with you that blaming Obama for a failure of leadership in this situation is borderline absurd, but it's a simple narrative that is easy to regurgitate in a complex, frustrating world, so we have to forgive people for believing it, to some extent.
    - joe_fro 9y ago
      I was curious about who did vote for the bill so I took a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Legislative_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda... The bill passed in the Senate by 60-39 with all republicans voting against except for Jim Bunning who did not vote. With 58 Democrat and 2 Independent votes the Republicans weren't able to filibuster. After the bill passed the senate a special election to replace Ted Kennedy in the senate was won by a Republican, so the Democrats no longer had a super majority in the Senate, and so the decision was made that the house should pass the Senates bill as they didn't think voting on a house bill would pass the senate now that the Republicans had 41 votes which was enough to filibuster. > The existing policy is a compromise that liberals signed off on to improve the conditions of the worst off The only compromises happened between members of the Democrat party, between moderates and progressives. > I agree with you that blaming Obama for a failure of leadership in this situation is borderline absurd I agree that there are likely a lot of compromises that happened behind the scenes that we didn't see, but there has to be some ownership of that bill by President Obama. It was his marquee bill at a time when some Democrats were urging him not to tackle it, he had a super majority in the senate and the house. He signed it into law, he set the agenda, I think it's fair to hold him accountable for the outcome, even if it's not exactly what he wanted, it's still what was passed and if he didn't like it they could have scrapped it to try again.

by NickM 9y ago

bluGill 9y ago

I blame Obama for not fixing it. You are correct about problems with the old system, but since I had insurance that didn't affect me.

smt88 9y ago
Obama couldn't fix anything because he was the president and he couldn't make laws. He barely even had the political clout to get ACA passed. The blame is on Congress.
DesiLurker 9y ago
the healthcare reform was a result of complicated partisan maneuvering to get over the finish line. many of those bandaids people complain about are a direct result of strong republican opposition. so much so that the final bill that passed was nowhere near what obama or anyone wanted. Blaming Obama and not the opposition in congress for any of this mess is really shortsighted. if you really want to know the gory details of this process and healthcare in america read the excellent book by Steve brill:America's Bitter Pill. and one more thing, you had insurance now but what happens in you lose your job or god forbid take a break for a few month to care for somebody.
- bluGill 9y ago
  Irrelevant since he never tried to fix the problem. He did try for the other problems, and there was a lot of opposition.
  - DesiLurker 9y ago
    are you trolling? if you are serious about finding out read the book, he explains the horsetrading that was needed to pass the bill. for a complex bill like that you cannot take one thing in isolation and complain you have to look at the context. Also, again, its congress not him. if you are gonna complain, complain about republicans that kept watering down the obamacare under bad faith negotiations (though eventually it passed without any red support).
- joe_fro 9y ago
  The Democrats passed the bill in the senate 60-39, with 2 independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against. Then that bill was passed in the house with a vote of 219–212 with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it. This wasn't partisan, this was Democrats passing a bill without any Republican votes. The band-aids were to get moderate Democrats on board. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Healthcare_debate,_2008%E2%80%9310 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...
  - NickM 8y ago
    Lieberman singlehandedly killed the public option, though. Obamacare would have looked very different if that had survived.
burntwater 9y ago
I think you can be disappointed Obama wasn't able to fix it. But blaming him for something that ultimately involves thousands of politicians and special interest groups is, I feel, unfair.
- jknoepfler 9y ago
  a much better question would be "who in congress was responsible for our not being able to crate modern public healthcare system?" The answer is certainly not the liberal/progressive wing of the Democratic party. The existing policy is a compromise that liberals signed off on to improve the conditions of the worst off, but they were not able to create the kind of conceptually coherent total overhaul we would require to make the system rational. I agree with you that blaming Obama for a failure of leadership in this situation is borderline absurd, but it's a simple narrative that is easy to regurgitate in a complex, frustrating world, so we have to forgive people for believing it, to some extent.
  - joe_fro 9y ago
    I was curious about who did vote for the bill so I took a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Legislative_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda... The bill passed in the Senate by 60-39 with all republicans voting against except for Jim Bunning who did not vote. With 58 Democrat and 2 Independent votes the Republicans weren't able to filibuster. After the bill passed the senate a special election to replace Ted Kennedy in the senate was won by a Republican, so the Democrats no longer had a super majority in the Senate, and so the decision was made that the house should pass the Senates bill as they didn't think voting on a house bill would pass the senate now that the Republicans had 41 votes which was enough to filibuster. > The existing policy is a compromise that liberals signed off on to improve the conditions of the worst off The only compromises happened between members of the Democrat party, between moderates and progressives. > I agree with you that blaming Obama for a failure of leadership in this situation is borderline absurd I agree that there are likely a lot of compromises that happened behind the scenes that we didn't see, but there has to be some ownership of that bill by President Obama. It was his marquee bill at a time when some Democrats were urging him not to tackle it, he had a super majority in the senate and the house. He signed it into law, he set the agenda, I think it's fair to hold him accountable for the outcome, even if it's not exactly what he wanted, it's still what was passed and if he didn't like it they could have scrapped it to try again.