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That's somehow even more vague than GP. I think the issue is pretty clear: The US has too expensive healthcare, and too low quality in relation to that price.

by croon 9y ago

That's somehow even more vague than GP. I think the issue is pretty clear: The US has too expensive healthcare, and too low quality in relation to that price. The solution "incentives" isn't really constructive in solving that issue, if you don't suggest what those incentives are. And as for your comment: within this problem space, everyone defining their own healthcare system and solving it is even less constructive.

Consultant32452 9y ago
The point is that the "healthcare system" should be an emergent one where each person is maximally in control of their own destiny. The idea that a few wealthy, connected, buyable people could get to "define the healthcare system" is terrifying.
- croon 9y ago
  I think you're describing a separate problem, of campaign financing, lobbying and/or corruption. > The point is that the "healthcare system" should be an emergent one where each person is maximally in control of their own destiny. Again, this is a nice sounding platitude. What does it mean? Since you want everyone to be "maximally in control", does that mean Mad Max-style anarchy? Representative democracy ensuring everyone gets a voice and securing of rights? Both ensures freedoms, but in very different directions.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Mad Max isn't anarchy, it's a centralized authoritarian dictatorship. What you're talking about where you want me to suggest a definition of "the game," how it's played, how to win, etc. is closer to Mad Max. With regards to healthcare, the best system is one in which each individual person has autonomy over themselves. Each will have its own desires: making money, saving money, receiving treatment, etc. The "system" emerges from the accumulation of human desires and abilities. I can't tell you exactly what it looks like because I can't pretend to know what everyone will want, nor can I tell you what is best for everyone. They are best left to determine that themselves.
    - croon 9y ago
      Mad Max was anarcho-capitalism reaching its logical conclusion, a monopoly with a financed militia. > With regards to healthcare, the best system is one in which each individual person has autonomy over themselves. Each will have its own desires: making money, saving money, receiving treatment, etc. The "system" emerges from the accumulation of human desires and abilities. I can't tell you exactly what it looks like because I can't pretend to know what everyone will want, nor can I tell you what is best for everyone. They are best left to determine that themselves. So basically no health care system and no social security, and bartering for whatever you want. Just say you want libertarian minimal government and we'd have saved 10 minutes of our lives instead of vague platitudes.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        >Mad Max was anarcho-capitalism reaching its logical conclusion, a monopoly with a financed militia. Authoritarianism comes in many stripes. Capitalism can be authoritarian, but forced socialism always is. >So basically no health care system and no social security, and bartering for whatever you want. Emergent systems exist all over the place. The very language we're using right now to communicate is an emergent system. There is not a central authority which dictates how we must converse, and yet here we are. >Just say you want libertarian minimal government and we'd have saved 10 minutes of our lives instead of vague platitudes. I didn't try to give you a platitude. You wanted me to define what is best for everyone and I tried to show you that your question implies that authoritarianism is best. I disagree with your implication.
        croon 9y ago
        > I didn't try to give you a platitude. You wanted me to define what is best for everyone and I tried to show you that your question implies that authoritarianism is best. I disagree with your implication. Cooperation and synergy isn't the same as authoritarianism. There's a reason that civilization and societies reached all major advances and discoveries, and not hermits or tribes. There's immense value in limiting overhead by delegating fundamental services into a collective pool. But all that is besides the point. On topic: I wanted neither you or OP to define what is best, I wanted OP to clarify what he was suggesting since he was suggesting something. I wanted you to clarify what you were saying, since I didn't understand how it fit into my response to OP. Apparently it didn't.

by croon 9y ago

Consultant32452 9y ago

The point is that the "healthcare system" should be an emergent one where each person is maximally in control of their own destiny. The idea that a few wealthy, connected, buyable people could get to "define the healthcare system" is terrifying.

croon 9y ago
I think you're describing a separate problem, of campaign financing, lobbying and/or corruption. > The point is that the "healthcare system" should be an emergent one where each person is maximally in control of their own destiny. Again, this is a nice sounding platitude. What does it mean? Since you want everyone to be "maximally in control", does that mean Mad Max-style anarchy? Representative democracy ensuring everyone gets a voice and securing of rights? Both ensures freedoms, but in very different directions.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  Mad Max isn't anarchy, it's a centralized authoritarian dictatorship. What you're talking about where you want me to suggest a definition of "the game," how it's played, how to win, etc. is closer to Mad Max. With regards to healthcare, the best system is one in which each individual person has autonomy over themselves. Each will have its own desires: making money, saving money, receiving treatment, etc. The "system" emerges from the accumulation of human desires and abilities. I can't tell you exactly what it looks like because I can't pretend to know what everyone will want, nor can I tell you what is best for everyone. They are best left to determine that themselves.
  - croon 9y ago
    Mad Max was anarcho-capitalism reaching its logical conclusion, a monopoly with a financed militia. > With regards to healthcare, the best system is one in which each individual person has autonomy over themselves. Each will have its own desires: making money, saving money, receiving treatment, etc. The "system" emerges from the accumulation of human desires and abilities. I can't tell you exactly what it looks like because I can't pretend to know what everyone will want, nor can I tell you what is best for everyone. They are best left to determine that themselves. So basically no health care system and no social security, and bartering for whatever you want. Just say you want libertarian minimal government and we'd have saved 10 minutes of our lives instead of vague platitudes.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      >Mad Max was anarcho-capitalism reaching its logical conclusion, a monopoly with a financed militia. Authoritarianism comes in many stripes. Capitalism can be authoritarian, but forced socialism always is. >So basically no health care system and no social security, and bartering for whatever you want. Emergent systems exist all over the place. The very language we're using right now to communicate is an emergent system. There is not a central authority which dictates how we must converse, and yet here we are. >Just say you want libertarian minimal government and we'd have saved 10 minutes of our lives instead of vague platitudes. I didn't try to give you a platitude. You wanted me to define what is best for everyone and I tried to show you that your question implies that authoritarianism is best. I disagree with your implication.
      - croon 9y ago
        > I didn't try to give you a platitude. You wanted me to define what is best for everyone and I tried to show you that your question implies that authoritarianism is best. I disagree with your implication. Cooperation and synergy isn't the same as authoritarianism. There's a reason that civilization and societies reached all major advances and discoveries, and not hermits or tribes. There's immense value in limiting overhead by delegating fundamental services into a collective pool. But all that is besides the point. On topic: I wanted neither you or OP to define what is best, I wanted OP to clarify what he was suggesting since he was suggesting something. I wanted you to clarify what you were saying, since I didn't understand how it fit into my response to OP. Apparently it didn't.