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Boundless Mind Wants to Fix America's Smartphone Addiction

46 points by jedwhite 9y ago

hownottowrite 9y ago
Solving technology-induced addiction with more technology is like a doctor prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of other drugs.
- sbarker 9y ago
  As long as they call it, "Methaphone" i'll take 500mg.
  - hownottowrite 9y ago
    I think I'll need a 1000mg at least... The article reads like an episode from Silicon Valley complete with TJ Miller clone boy. "He signs his emails with emojis–a bear, a red heart, a sun–describes himself on the company’s website as an 'escaped circus bear' and favors collared shirts unbuttoned to the sternum, revealing a tan wilderness of chest hair." Really... This is the guy who's going to save everyone from their smartphones?
- atomical 9y ago
  I was expecting this article to be about software that locks down your phone, or turns off notifications at certain times of the day and sends them to the graveyard. Notifications are the devil.
  - RangerScience 9y ago
    Alas, it's not possible for an app to block notifications on iOS. You can do more with Android, tho.
    - atomical 9y ago
      Maybe someone should design AI for notifications that I really need to see. Of course the problem is I don't need to see anything but Slack.
      - RangerScience 9y ago
        We've talked about this. It's part of the thinking around where the engagement sweet spot is: there IS some value that things like FB bring to your life, but beyond that, they're detrimental. Where is that point? Can you find it? Can you habituate people to it? Dunno.
        atomical 9y ago
        I don't see Facebook as having any value. If people want to communicate with me they should do it directly.
- spuz 9y ago
  No, that's a poor analogy. For example, I purchased a timer plug socket that turns off my router between the hours of midnight and 7am. That's using technology to solve the problem of technology addiction. If you apply technology in the right way, it can help you to use it less.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    Putting a time lock on your liquor cabinet so it doesn't open between midnight and seven a.m. isn't solving the problem of alcoholism. If an approach of the sort you describe does anything to solve the problem of the behavior pattern it is directed at, you probably shouldn't use “addiction” to describe the behavior pattern in the first place.
    - RangerScience 9y ago
      Sometimes the right way to solve a problem is to alleviate the symptoms. Like dog cones. The solution to some skin issue is to not poke at it, and that's it. If you stop poking at it, it'll fix itself.
    - spuz 9y ago
      This is also a poor analogy. To an alcoholic, alcohol serves no (or very little) useful purpose. However, to a technology addict, technology serves both useful and useless purposes. My suggestion is to build technology in a way that maximises the usefulness to a user and minimises the uselessness. There are two dimensions to work with and you can make changes to your technology that moves you along them independently.
  - hownottowrite 9y ago
    It’s a perfect analogy and thank you for reinforcing the point.
- tdaltonc 9y ago
  Civilization is the accretion of more techniques to fix the problem of the other techniques.
toasterlovin 9y ago
I think the Amish have a lot to teach us about integrating technology into our lives. Sure, they probably go further than I, personally, would prefer. But at least they have asked themselves the question, "How can we reap the benefits of this new technology while avoiding it's pitfalls?" The larger culture, on the other hand, isn't even aware this is a question worth asking.
- lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
  I think it's a non answer if to "reap the benefits" you just rely on the fact the majority of society will both eat any potential pitfalls and cater to your lifestyle to extend the benefits to you.
  - JackCh 9y ago
    Your comment lacks specificity so it's difficult to ascertain what elements of technology you understand the Amish to exploit for themselves, and which you believe they parasite off the rest of us. Speaking generally then, I think it's interesting to note that contrary to popular perception the Amish will often (albeit not always) use modern technology when they decide it suits them for industrial purposes. This includes the (not universal) use of diesel generators, telephones, computers, solar panels, wind turbines, tractors, refrigerators, milking machines, batteries, compressed air, among others. They will (often) use this technology in one aspect of their lives while abstaining in other contexts. They may have a computer in their workplace for workplace related tasks, but they almost certainly won't have a computer at home with which to play CS:Go in the evenings. I believe this is what toasterlovin was referring to when he attributed to the Amish the question "How can we reap the benefits of this new technology while avoiding it's pitfalls?"
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      That is precisely what I was referring to. I will say, though, that there are aspects of the Amish lifestyle and belief structure which would not be viable if they were the dominant culture, rather than just a very small minority. The big issue that stands out to me is that I'm not sure that the Amish emphasis on extremely tight community bonds is compatible with the level of economic specialization required for a nation state to be competitive with it's neighbors. There is something kind of magical that only seems to happen in cities, but cities seem to be especially effective at promoting an intensely individualistic lifestyle. But that's all orthogonal to my original point. You can learn from the Amish without becoming Amish. We could emulate their approach of delineating very specific ways in which technology is to be integrated into our lives. But our society seems to have serious problems with the idea of orthopraxy, so I'm not counting on it.
haraball 9y ago
From their web page: > Boundless Mind makes it easy to hook your users. That's not that this post's title made me think it was, which was something that make people put away their phones[0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/27/mobile-phone-addiction-apps-break-the-habit-take-back-control https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/27/mobile-ph...
- rockarage 9y ago
  You're right, perhaps the worst headline ever, the company actually wants to do the opposite: "Meet the tech company that wants to make you even more addicted to your phone" – TechCrunch at: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/08/meet-the-tech-company-that-wants-to-make-you-even-more-addicted-to-your-phone/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/08/meet-the-tech-company-that... The Time's editor should be ashamed.
- jmcphers 9y ago
  Indeed, it's almost the opposite! > > Boundless Mind’s business model is to develop new versions of the same persuasive tools, combined with machine learning, that big tech firms already use–and then to sell them to nonprofits and companies promoting education, health or social welfare.
  - RangerScience 9y ago
    But not quite! It's rare to have a running addiction, but common to have a running habit. Is the line the strength of the compulsion, or the effect on the human...?
    - mercer 9y ago
      Both. We all compulsively sleep, eat, and hydrate, but those are not a addictions because they're good for us. With running I suppose the effort to do it, even if it's a habit, prevents most people from getting addicted to it. And then those that have some psychological 'dependence' on running would not generally be considered 'addicted' because running is mostly healthy.
linkmotif 9y ago
I skimmed the piece and couldn’t find what their product is. Is there a product here?
- tdaltonc 9y ago
  We make two tings: The Boundless AI helps companies build habits that help people (fitness, health, financial responsibly, etc). https://Boundless.AI https://Boundless.AI Space helps people quit habit forming apps. https://youjustneedspace.com https://youjustneedspace.com
  - _mhr_ 9y ago
    You have a B2B service for helping companies form habits, and a consumer-facing app for breaking a specific kind of habit (phone/social media addiction), but I think a hybrid would be killer: A consumer-facing app for both forming and breaking any sort of habit for an individual person, whether that's sleep, exercise, diet, conscientiousness, etc.
    - tdaltonc 9y ago
      We've looked at making a consumer habit app. The problem is when a consumer wants to change them self, they think, "I need to get a financial heath app," or "I need to get a fitness app," or "I need to get a diet app," never "I need to get a habit app." So discoverability and user education become insurmountable. Furthermore, building a UX for habit formation requires a lot of domain expertise. A food behavior app and a education behavior app have almost nothing in common. Generalist habit apps always get crushed by a sea of more focused apps (even if they don't work as well!). The app store is awash in well executed generalist habit apps that no one uses. We pivoted in to being an AI-API for exactly that reason.
      - _mhr_ 9y ago
        Makes sense. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
spuz 9y ago
I have tried desperately to use technology to help me use technology less. I love my smartphone and Facebook and YouTube, I just don't want to spend all day on them. I have implemented some crude solutions already and they certainly help. For example, my PC shuts down automatically at midnight thanks to a cronjob. I also have a plug socket that turns off my router every night at midnight. I have a number of chrome plugins installed to help me use social media less. However, because none of these solutions are in-built they are not ideal - I can bypass them or they stop me doing work when I need to do it. I want my phone to nudge me if it thinks I'm spending too long on certain apps. I want reddit to stop loading if I've spent more than an hour on it that day. I want to be able to bypass these limitations if I strictly need to (for example, "You've spent 1 hour on reddit already today, click here to pay $0.10 for another 15 minutes). Just in the way that technology can be fine-tuned to grab your attention, I know that it can be designed to help you get the most out of your time. I really would pay $10 / month for a version of YouTube or Chrome that had these features. If anyone knows of solutions like this please let me know.
- tdaltonc 9y ago
  Have you tried our app Space? You're right about the engineering limits of it being an app. It's very frustrating. Space was initially rejected from the Apple app store. It only got through after it was featured on 60 Minutes. If you use Android, email me. We're working on something extra strength there. https://youjustneedspace.com https://youjustneedspace.com
  - spuz 9y ago
    Yes, I have tried Space, it honestly seemed pretty dumb. It did not seem to work for me. I would definitely love to see what you have planned for Android. What is your email address?
    - tdaltonc 9y ago
      team {at] boundless.ai
- massaman_yams 9y ago
tjr225 9y ago
Sitting on I5 Northbound on the way to my tech job in Seattle I was rerouted to a smaller highway. As traffic flooded into the communities of the Kent Valley it dawned about on me that if it weren't for all the tech- and therefor tech jobs- I'm not sure I would need a smartphone whatsoever. I probably wouldn't live here either- but it was just a thought.
alewi481 9y ago
There's an app on the Google Play Store called "Stay Focused" that allows you to set time limits for individual apps and block the app for the remainder of the day once the time limit is reached. While I could go through the effort of subverting it, I've found that it has been effective in limiting my usage of distracting apps like Facebook or Reddit. A lot of times, I will instinctively click the app icon when I get on my phone, and the "Access Denied" splash screen it displays after the time limit is up helps me stay aware of my aimless browsing habits and encourages me to do something more productive. If you can maintain discipline and not disable the app after a time limit has been reached, it can help to deter compulsive news feed consumption and other distracting activities.
univalent 9y ago
I've been using a timer app on iOS 'Timeglass'. I have multiple timers for social apps, news, email checking at home etc. I've managed to cut down quite a lot by hitting simple targets like 'only check news once every 6 hours' and so on. Free, cheap solution I'd recommend to everyone.
thisrod 9y ago
This article made me think of Beyond Freedom and Dignity by B. F. Skinner. I haven't read it, yet. Has anyone?
- tdaltonc 9y ago
  I have (CEO of the company the article is about). We keep a couple of copies in the office.

46 points by jedwhite 9y ago

Solving technology-induced addiction with more technology is like a doctor prescribing drugs to treat the side effects of other drugs.

sbarker 9y ago
As long as they call it, "Methaphone" i'll take 500mg.
- hownottowrite 9y ago
  I think I'll need a 1000mg at least... The article reads like an episode from Silicon Valley complete with TJ Miller clone boy. "He signs his emails with emojis–a bear, a red heart, a sun–describes himself on the company’s website as an 'escaped circus bear' and favors collared shirts unbuttoned to the sternum, revealing a tan wilderness of chest hair." Really... This is the guy who's going to save everyone from their smartphones?
atomical 9y ago
I was expecting this article to be about software that locks down your phone, or turns off notifications at certain times of the day and sends them to the graveyard. Notifications are the devil.
- RangerScience 9y ago
  Alas, it's not possible for an app to block notifications on iOS. You can do more with Android, tho.
  - atomical 9y ago
    Maybe someone should design AI for notifications that I really need to see. Of course the problem is I don't need to see anything but Slack.
    - RangerScience 9y ago
      We've talked about this. It's part of the thinking around where the engagement sweet spot is: there IS some value that things like FB bring to your life, but beyond that, they're detrimental. Where is that point? Can you find it? Can you habituate people to it? Dunno.
      - atomical 9y ago
        I don't see Facebook as having any value. If people want to communicate with me they should do it directly.
spuz 9y ago
No, that's a poor analogy. For example, I purchased a timer plug socket that turns off my router between the hours of midnight and 7am. That's using technology to solve the problem of technology addiction. If you apply technology in the right way, it can help you to use it less.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Putting a time lock on your liquor cabinet so it doesn't open between midnight and seven a.m. isn't solving the problem of alcoholism. If an approach of the sort you describe does anything to solve the problem of the behavior pattern it is directed at, you probably shouldn't use “addiction” to describe the behavior pattern in the first place.
  - RangerScience 9y ago
    Sometimes the right way to solve a problem is to alleviate the symptoms. Like dog cones. The solution to some skin issue is to not poke at it, and that's it. If you stop poking at it, it'll fix itself.
  - spuz 9y ago
    This is also a poor analogy. To an alcoholic, alcohol serves no (or very little) useful purpose. However, to a technology addict, technology serves both useful and useless purposes. My suggestion is to build technology in a way that maximises the usefulness to a user and minimises the uselessness. There are two dimensions to work with and you can make changes to your technology that moves you along them independently.
- hownottowrite 9y ago
  It’s a perfect analogy and thank you for reinforcing the point.
tdaltonc 9y ago
Civilization is the accretion of more techniques to fix the problem of the other techniques.

toasterlovin 9y ago

I think the Amish have a lot to teach us about integrating technology into our lives. Sure, they probably go further than I, personally, would prefer. But at least they have asked themselves the question, "How can we reap the benefits of this new technology while avoiding it's pitfalls?" The larger culture, on the other hand, isn't even aware this is a question worth asking.

lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
I think it's a non answer if to "reap the benefits" you just rely on the fact the majority of society will both eat any potential pitfalls and cater to your lifestyle to extend the benefits to you.
- JackCh 9y ago
  Your comment lacks specificity so it's difficult to ascertain what elements of technology you understand the Amish to exploit for themselves, and which you believe they parasite off the rest of us. Speaking generally then, I think it's interesting to note that contrary to popular perception the Amish will often (albeit not always) use modern technology when they decide it suits them for industrial purposes. This includes the (not universal) use of diesel generators, telephones, computers, solar panels, wind turbines, tractors, refrigerators, milking machines, batteries, compressed air, among others. They will (often) use this technology in one aspect of their lives while abstaining in other contexts. They may have a computer in their workplace for workplace related tasks, but they almost certainly won't have a computer at home with which to play CS:Go in the evenings. I believe this is what toasterlovin was referring to when he attributed to the Amish the question "How can we reap the benefits of this new technology while avoiding it's pitfalls?"
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    That is precisely what I was referring to. I will say, though, that there are aspects of the Amish lifestyle and belief structure which would not be viable if they were the dominant culture, rather than just a very small minority. The big issue that stands out to me is that I'm not sure that the Amish emphasis on extremely tight community bonds is compatible with the level of economic specialization required for a nation state to be competitive with it's neighbors. There is something kind of magical that only seems to happen in cities, but cities seem to be especially effective at promoting an intensely individualistic lifestyle. But that's all orthogonal to my original point. You can learn from the Amish without becoming Amish. We could emulate their approach of delineating very specific ways in which technology is to be integrated into our lives. But our society seems to have serious problems with the idea of orthopraxy, so I'm not counting on it.

haraball 9y ago

From their web page: > Boundless Mind makes it easy to hook your users. That's not that this post's title made me think it was, which was something that make people put away their phones[0]. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/27/mobile-phone-addiction-apps-break-the-habit-take-back-control https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/27/mobile-ph...

rockarage 9y ago
You're right, perhaps the worst headline ever, the company actually wants to do the opposite: "Meet the tech company that wants to make you even more addicted to your phone" – TechCrunch at: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/08/meet-the-tech-company-that-wants-to-make-you-even-more-addicted-to-your-phone/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/08/meet-the-tech-company-that... The Time's editor should be ashamed.
jmcphers 9y ago
Indeed, it's almost the opposite! > > Boundless Mind’s business model is to develop new versions of the same persuasive tools, combined with machine learning, that big tech firms already use–and then to sell them to nonprofits and companies promoting education, health or social welfare.
- RangerScience 9y ago
  But not quite! It's rare to have a running addiction, but common to have a running habit. Is the line the strength of the compulsion, or the effect on the human...?
  - mercer 9y ago
    Both. We all compulsively sleep, eat, and hydrate, but those are not a addictions because they're good for us. With running I suppose the effort to do it, even if it's a habit, prevents most people from getting addicted to it. And then those that have some psychological 'dependence' on running would not generally be considered 'addicted' because running is mostly healthy.

linkmotif 9y ago

I skimmed the piece and couldn’t find what their product is. Is there a product here?

tdaltonc 9y ago
We make two tings: The Boundless AI helps companies build habits that help people (fitness, health, financial responsibly, etc). https://Boundless.AI https://Boundless.AI Space helps people quit habit forming apps. https://youjustneedspace.com https://youjustneedspace.com
- _mhr_ 9y ago
  You have a B2B service for helping companies form habits, and a consumer-facing app for breaking a specific kind of habit (phone/social media addiction), but I think a hybrid would be killer: A consumer-facing app for both forming and breaking any sort of habit for an individual person, whether that's sleep, exercise, diet, conscientiousness, etc.
  - tdaltonc 9y ago
    We've looked at making a consumer habit app. The problem is when a consumer wants to change them self, they think, "I need to get a financial heath app," or "I need to get a fitness app," or "I need to get a diet app," never "I need to get a habit app." So discoverability and user education become insurmountable. Furthermore, building a UX for habit formation requires a lot of domain expertise. A food behavior app and a education behavior app have almost nothing in common. Generalist habit apps always get crushed by a sea of more focused apps (even if they don't work as well!). The app store is awash in well executed generalist habit apps that no one uses. We pivoted in to being an AI-API for exactly that reason.
    - _mhr_ 9y ago
      Makes sense. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

spuz 9y ago

I have tried desperately to use technology to help me use technology less. I love my smartphone and Facebook and YouTube, I just don't want to spend all day on them. I have implemented some crude solutions already and they certainly help. For example, my PC shuts down automatically at midnight thanks to a cronjob. I also have a plug socket that turns off my router every night at midnight. I have a number of chrome plugins installed to help me use social media less. However, because none of these solutions are in-built they are not ideal - I can bypass them or they stop me doing work when I need to do it. I want my phone to nudge me if it thinks I'm spending too long on certain apps. I want reddit to stop loading if I've spent more than an hour on it that day. I want to be able to bypass these limitations if I strictly need to (for example, "You've spent 1 hour on reddit already today, click here to pay $0.10 for another 15 minutes). Just in the way that technology can be fine-tuned to grab your attention, I know that it can be designed to help you get the most out of your time. I really would pay $10 / month for a version of YouTube or Chrome that had these features. If anyone knows of solutions like this please let me know.

tdaltonc 9y ago
Have you tried our app Space? You're right about the engineering limits of it being an app. It's very frustrating. Space was initially rejected from the Apple app store. It only got through after it was featured on 60 Minutes. If you use Android, email me. We're working on something extra strength there. https://youjustneedspace.com https://youjustneedspace.com
- spuz 9y ago
  Yes, I have tried Space, it honestly seemed pretty dumb. It did not seem to work for me. I would definitely love to see what you have planned for Android. What is your email address?
  - tdaltonc 9y ago
    team {at] boundless.ai
massaman_yams 9y ago

tjr225 9y ago

Sitting on I5 Northbound on the way to my tech job in Seattle I was rerouted to a smaller highway. As traffic flooded into the communities of the Kent Valley it dawned about on me that if it weren't for all the tech- and therefor tech jobs- I'm not sure I would need a smartphone whatsoever. I probably wouldn't live here either- but it was just a thought.

alewi481 9y ago

There's an app on the Google Play Store called "Stay Focused" that allows you to set time limits for individual apps and block the app for the remainder of the day once the time limit is reached. While I could go through the effort of subverting it, I've found that it has been effective in limiting my usage of distracting apps like Facebook or Reddit. A lot of times, I will instinctively click the app icon when I get on my phone, and the "Access Denied" splash screen it displays after the time limit is up helps me stay aware of my aimless browsing habits and encourages me to do something more productive. If you can maintain discipline and not disable the app after a time limit has been reached, it can help to deter compulsive news feed consumption and other distracting activities.

univalent 9y ago

I've been using a timer app on iOS 'Timeglass'. I have multiple timers for social apps, news, email checking at home etc. I've managed to cut down quite a lot by hitting simple targets like 'only check news once every 6 hours' and so on. Free, cheap solution I'd recommend to everyone.

thisrod 9y ago

This article made me think of Beyond Freedom and Dignity by B. F. Skinner. I haven't read it, yet. Has anyone?

tdaltonc 9y ago
I have (CEO of the company the article is about). We keep a couple of copies in the office.