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Try it. it’s not impossible. I do it all the time. Have you ever noticed how passengers are still paying attention to what’s going on and sometimes even turn th

Try it. it’s not impossible. I do it all the time. Have you ever noticed how passengers are still paying attention to what’s going on and sometimes even turn their head to see where the car is turning? it’s like that, except you’re in the drivers seat. it’s not more work than driving.

cm2187 9y ago
It’s not a matter of work but of reaction time available.
astrodust 9y ago
That crash in the video is one you'd have very little time to avoid. Recognizing that the car isn't just going a bit wide but is on a direct collision course with the barrier takes time, and then you need to determine a course of action, reacting without over-reacting. You probably have 100ms to begin your action, 500ms to complete it. Good luck with that if you're not perfectly alert.
- omarforgotpwd 9y ago
  Trust me, when the car starts doing something you wouldn't do you feel it immediately IF you're paying attention. Remember the car doesn't do anything fancy -- it's just supposed to drive straight centered in the lane
  - astrodust 9y ago
    It drove in a straight line right into the wall. What part of that, other than hitting the wall, are you going to "feel"?
    - vsl 9y ago
      The way it diverted from the trajectory you would take. It got off the expected path, or drivers a few km/h faster in a road arc that you would, that sort of thing raises alarm in the driver right away. A funny feeling like that, I’m ready to disengage immediately and then 1s is plenty of time. But I wouldn’t use Autopilot near an obstacle like that to begin with - anticipate, take over for the weird stretches.
      - astrodust 9y ago
        1000ms is plenty of time, but in this particular crash you have 500ms total between the car veering out of the lane and impacting the wall. Regardless, you're saying that if you're not paying attention every single second of the trip, instantly ready to rect to even the slightest deviation from your intended trajectory, then you're doing it wrong. What, exactly, is the point of an auto-pilot system if you need to be in that state of absolute alertness?
  - michaelt 9y ago
    Seems to me in the video there's no intervention needed at the 21 second mark, and the car's already hit the barrier at the 22 second mark. Youtube doesn't provide sub-second time marks, but I'd estimate it's 21.5 second before I'd expect the car to start turning, giving the driver 0.5 seconds to notice the failure, take control of the vehicle, and execute the swerve required. The Queensland government estimates it takes drivers 1.5 seconds to react to an emergency [1] (I wouldn't be surprised if that was a 99th percentile figure, of course) The only thing we can blame the victim for here is foolishly trusting Tesla's apparently crap software. [1] https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/driving-safely/stopping-distances https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/driving-...
    - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
      > giving the driver 0.5 seconds to notice the failure, take control of the vehicle, and execute the swerve required. If you have to be constantly at this level of alertness, what is even the point of having an autopilot?
      - astrodust 9y ago
        This is the automation paradox, and one that Tesla itself has been facing with their assembly lines. If you over-automate something you end up having to spend more time supervising and fixing it than if you'd just done the thing yourself in the first place.
      - vsl 9y ago
        Did you drive with such a system? If you did, you would know there’s a HUGE difference between having to manage minutae (just keeping yourself in a lane is surprising amount of work) and being free to pay attention to your surroundings. Your cognitive load is lowered by Autopilot enormously. You can pay better attention to what’s going on around you and anticipate issues (say, a car that drivers weirdly in front of you) because you’re not busy with the low-level driving. Part of that is that you see a difficult road stretch coming up and disengage the assist IN ADVANCE - becuase you’re not a complete moron, know the lane assist is for driving in highway lanes and the thing you’re approaching is decisively not one.
gambiting 9y ago
Ok, imagine if you are a passenger in a car, sitting next to the driver. You are heading towards a turn, with a solid barrier in your path if you don't turn. Your driver is awake, holding the wheel firmly with eyes wide open. Do you think there's any chance you could intervene between realizing that the driver is not turning and the car hitting the barrier? You could be paying 200% attention to the road, but there's just not enough time - by the time you even realize that the driver is not turning the wheel to impact there is like 1 second of time, maybe two - could you grab the wheel and pull it to one side in that time? And even if you could, can you guarantee that you won't pull it too much and into the path of fully loaded 18-wheeler which will promptly flatten your car? It's just not good enough. Semi-autonomous cars can't be hitting stationary objects without reacting at all. If they fail at this basic task, then they shouldn't be allowed on the road.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  No idea why you are downvoted. Your comment is right on.
maxxxxx 9y ago
When I am a passenger I do not always pay attention, only sometimes. And if something happens it will the driver's fault, not mine. It would be a very stressful ride if I had to always observe the driver and if I didn't intervene anytime every problem would be my responsibility.
- nojvek 9y ago
  I definitely think auto-pilot is a really bad name. It should be “advanced cruise control”. Because essentially that’s what it is. Follow the lane and maintain distance behind a car. Also unless certified on certain roads with clear markers, drivers should be required to have hands on wheels at all times.

cm2187 9y ago

It’s not a matter of work but of reaction time available.

astrodust 9y ago

That crash in the video is one you'd have very little time to avoid. Recognizing that the car isn't just going a bit wide but is on a direct collision course with the barrier takes time, and then you need to determine a course of action, reacting without over-reacting. You probably have 100ms to begin your action, 500ms to complete it. Good luck with that if you're not perfectly alert.

omarforgotpwd 9y ago
Trust me, when the car starts doing something you wouldn't do you feel it immediately IF you're paying attention. Remember the car doesn't do anything fancy -- it's just supposed to drive straight centered in the lane
- astrodust 9y ago
  It drove in a straight line right into the wall. What part of that, other than hitting the wall, are you going to "feel"?
  - vsl 9y ago
    The way it diverted from the trajectory you would take. It got off the expected path, or drivers a few km/h faster in a road arc that you would, that sort of thing raises alarm in the driver right away. A funny feeling like that, I’m ready to disengage immediately and then 1s is plenty of time. But I wouldn’t use Autopilot near an obstacle like that to begin with - anticipate, take over for the weird stretches.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      1000ms is plenty of time, but in this particular crash you have 500ms total between the car veering out of the lane and impacting the wall. Regardless, you're saying that if you're not paying attention every single second of the trip, instantly ready to rect to even the slightest deviation from your intended trajectory, then you're doing it wrong. What, exactly, is the point of an auto-pilot system if you need to be in that state of absolute alertness?
- michaelt 9y ago
  Seems to me in the video there's no intervention needed at the 21 second mark, and the car's already hit the barrier at the 22 second mark. Youtube doesn't provide sub-second time marks, but I'd estimate it's 21.5 second before I'd expect the car to start turning, giving the driver 0.5 seconds to notice the failure, take control of the vehicle, and execute the swerve required. The Queensland government estimates it takes drivers 1.5 seconds to react to an emergency [1] (I wouldn't be surprised if that was a 99th percentile figure, of course) The only thing we can blame the victim for here is foolishly trusting Tesla's apparently crap software. [1] https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/driving-safely/stopping-distances https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/driving-...
  - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
    > giving the driver 0.5 seconds to notice the failure, take control of the vehicle, and execute the swerve required. If you have to be constantly at this level of alertness, what is even the point of having an autopilot?
    - astrodust 9y ago
      This is the automation paradox, and one that Tesla itself has been facing with their assembly lines. If you over-automate something you end up having to spend more time supervising and fixing it than if you'd just done the thing yourself in the first place.
    - vsl 9y ago
      Did you drive with such a system? If you did, you would know there’s a HUGE difference between having to manage minutae (just keeping yourself in a lane is surprising amount of work) and being free to pay attention to your surroundings. Your cognitive load is lowered by Autopilot enormously. You can pay better attention to what’s going on around you and anticipate issues (say, a car that drivers weirdly in front of you) because you’re not busy with the low-level driving. Part of that is that you see a difficult road stretch coming up and disengage the assist IN ADVANCE - becuase you’re not a complete moron, know the lane assist is for driving in highway lanes and the thing you’re approaching is decisively not one.

gambiting 9y ago

Ok, imagine if you are a passenger in a car, sitting next to the driver. You are heading towards a turn, with a solid barrier in your path if you don't turn. Your driver is awake, holding the wheel firmly with eyes wide open. Do you think there's any chance you could intervene between realizing that the driver is not turning and the car hitting the barrier? You could be paying 200% attention to the road, but there's just not enough time - by the time you even realize that the driver is not turning the wheel to impact there is like 1 second of time, maybe two - could you grab the wheel and pull it to one side in that time? And even if you could, can you guarantee that you won't pull it too much and into the path of fully loaded 18-wheeler which will promptly flatten your car? It's just not good enough. Semi-autonomous cars can't be hitting stationary objects without reacting at all. If they fail at this basic task, then they shouldn't be allowed on the road.

maxxxxx 9y ago
No idea why you are downvoted. Your comment is right on.

maxxxxx 9y ago

When I am a passenger I do not always pay attention, only sometimes. And if something happens it will the driver's fault, not mine. It would be a very stressful ride if I had to always observe the driver and if I didn't intervene anytime every problem would be my responsibility.

nojvek 9y ago
I definitely think auto-pilot is a really bad name. It should be “advanced cruise control”. Because essentially that’s what it is. Follow the lane and maintain distance behind a car. Also unless certified on certain roads with clear markers, drivers should be required to have hands on wheels at all times.