3 ms·

It's kind of sad we're in this state in 2018 because Apple launched 7 low end machines [1] back in 2006 that didn't have 64-bit support. Even though those are l

by npunt 9y ago

It's kind of sad we're in this state in 2018 because Apple launched 7 low end machines [1] back in 2006 that didn't have 64-bit support. Even though those are long gone, their software support legacy remains. Apple could have transitioned directly to x64 and saved themselves the headache (afaict, maybe these problems would have persisted?). [1] http://lowendmac.com/2006/core-duo-macs/ http://lowendmac.com/2006/core-duo-macs/

mrpippy 9y ago
Apple couldn't have gone straight to 64-bit apps on Intel--the OS and frameworks just weren't ready yet. The Intel machines shipped starting with 10.4.3, which only supported 64-bit command-line apps/daemons. Only with 10.5 (released in late 2007, 18 months after the first Intel machines) were full graphical 64-bit apps supported (on both ppc64 and x86_64).
- wtallis 9y ago
  Firmware was an issue, too. The first generation of Macs with 64-bit processors still used 32-bit EFI and booted a 32-bit kernel that could run 64-bit applications.
  - mrpippy 9y ago
    True, it wasn't until 10.6 that a 64-bit kernel was available, and only newer machines got to use it. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/5/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/5/
    - yuhong 9y ago
      I had a blog article about the entire mess that was often confused (there was actually three modes): http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2009/09/mac-os-xs-64-bit-modes.html http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2009/09/mac-os-xs-64-bit-modes....
rz2k 9y ago
The oldest Macs that support Sierra (10.12) or High Sierra (10.13) are from 2009. You may be able to bypass these restrictions which are often based on graphics chips through kernel extensions, but discontinued support for 32bit probably has much more to do with older software than older hardware. If you want to find unusual problems with older Apple hardware for the sake of reusability, take a look at the firmware from around that time. It was just weird enough to make it similar to standards but often too difficult to support a decade later. In a decade, people are going to say the same about the not-quite NVMe SSD interfaces in current Macs.
yuhong 9y ago
They wanted to avoid NetBurst (including Prescott and Cedar Mill) and picked Yonah which was 32-bit only instead.
jammi 9y ago
What's worse is that they had already been transitioning to 64bit hardware with the PowerMac G5 and iMac G5 models since 2003. Anyhow, I doubt they'd have had time to make a solid 64bit x86_64 SDK even if they had delayed the hardware to late 2006. They had never stopped maintaining the x86 port of OS X (aka Rhapsody, Open Step, NeXT Step), just stopped shipping it as a product, because their strategy was and still is to package their OS in hardware boxes. They started shipping x86 boxes to developers in the form of the x86 development box, which was a (32bit) Pentium 4 shoehorned into a Power Mac G5 case. Its OS is also what leaked to the early x86 hackintosh scene; before Apple shipped their own x86 Macs. I ran it on an custom Athlon64 box and a ThinkPad T42. Since they already had the x86 port, it was an easy switch at a time when all x86 hardware from Intel was still 32bit. If they knew Intel would adopt x86_64 from AMD, one option could've been to ship with AMD CPU's on the first models, but I'm not sure how well that'd have turned out logistically or whether it'd have made a huge difference.

by npunt 9y ago

mrpippy 9y ago

Apple couldn't have gone straight to 64-bit apps on Intel--the OS and frameworks just weren't ready yet. The Intel machines shipped starting with 10.4.3, which only supported 64-bit command-line apps/daemons. Only with 10.5 (released in late 2007, 18 months after the first Intel machines) were full graphical 64-bit apps supported (on both ppc64 and x86_64).

wtallis 9y ago
Firmware was an issue, too. The first generation of Macs with 64-bit processors still used 32-bit EFI and booted a 32-bit kernel that could run 64-bit applications.
- mrpippy 9y ago
  True, it wasn't until 10.6 that a 64-bit kernel was available, and only newer machines got to use it. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/5/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/5/
  - yuhong 9y ago
    I had a blog article about the entire mess that was often confused (there was actually three modes): http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2009/09/mac-os-xs-64-bit-modes.html http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2009/09/mac-os-xs-64-bit-modes....

rz2k 9y ago

The oldest Macs that support Sierra (10.12) or High Sierra (10.13) are from 2009. You may be able to bypass these restrictions which are often based on graphics chips through kernel extensions, but discontinued support for 32bit probably has much more to do with older software than older hardware. If you want to find unusual problems with older Apple hardware for the sake of reusability, take a look at the firmware from around that time. It was just weird enough to make it similar to standards but often too difficult to support a decade later. In a decade, people are going to say the same about the not-quite NVMe SSD interfaces in current Macs.

yuhong 9y ago

They wanted to avoid NetBurst (including Prescott and Cedar Mill) and picked Yonah which was 32-bit only instead.

jammi 9y ago

What's worse is that they had already been transitioning to 64bit hardware with the PowerMac G5 and iMac G5 models since 2003. Anyhow, I doubt they'd have had time to make a solid 64bit x86_64 SDK even if they had delayed the hardware to late 2006. They had never stopped maintaining the x86 port of OS X (aka Rhapsody, Open Step, NeXT Step), just stopped shipping it as a product, because their strategy was and still is to package their OS in hardware boxes. They started shipping x86 boxes to developers in the form of the x86 development box, which was a (32bit) Pentium 4 shoehorned into a Power Mac G5 case. Its OS is also what leaked to the early x86 hackintosh scene; before Apple shipped their own x86 Macs. I ran it on an custom Athlon64 box and a ThinkPad T42. Since they already had the x86 port, it was an easy switch at a time when all x86 hardware from Intel was still 32bit. If they knew Intel would adopt x86_64 from AMD, one option could've been to ship with AMD CPU's on the first models, but I'm not sure how well that'd have turned out logistically or whether it'd have made a huge difference.