4 ms·

Big is still not infinite. There must be some quantity of salt we can dump a year to raise salinity. We should be rigorous, and find out what that quantity is.

Big is still not infinite. There must be some quantity of salt we can dump a year to raise salinity. We should be rigorous, and find out what that quantity is. If we can change a climate, we can change an ocean.

ggm 9y ago
The assumption there is a feasible application of something in a location to remediate a world wide problem is attractive but I think built on faulty logic. To try an analogy, gluing a broken cup back together doesn't make it never have broken. Yes, we probably can re-salinate a flow to attempt to alter its dynamics. We'd also have altered its salinity profile in ways which have repercussions on e.g. cod fisheries, or krill, or other things. Thats the problem with complex biological systems with lots of interrelated parts: they don't reverse with simple tweaks because once you change one part, you change lots of parts in unexpected ways. (I did once study this stuff back in the 80s and was very bad at it, but what I recall of even two-actor predator-prey relationships is that they are remarkably complex, cyclical, and do not just return to the same stable place if you alter them trivially. I believe this is probably even more true for physical systems like weather and climate)
ojbyrne 9y ago
I suspect that like most “magic” solutions to environmental problems, this would cost significantly more than just reducing CO2 emissions.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  While you are right that reducing CO2 emissions is a must, I'm uncertain if we don't have to actively remove it as well. If it's not already too late anyway. With the methane hydrate already on the move...
throw_away2 9y ago
1/100 of 1% of the world's oceans is a cube 32 miles on each side [0]. This volume of salt would weigh 317 billion tons [1]. World commercial production is .25 billion tons of salt [2]. So, to raise salinity by .01%, we'd need 1268 years of normal production (plus some when you exclude sea-water extraction). [0] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(volume+of+the+world%27s+oceans+*+.0001) http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(volume+of+the+world%27... [1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=31956+cubic+miles+of+salt+in+tons http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=31956+cubic+miles+of+sa... [2] http://www.saltinstitute.org/salt-101/production-industry/ http://www.saltinstitute.org/salt-101/production-industry/

ggm 9y ago

The assumption there is a feasible application of something in a location to remediate a world wide problem is attractive but I think built on faulty logic. To try an analogy, gluing a broken cup back together doesn't make it never have broken. Yes, we probably can re-salinate a flow to attempt to alter its dynamics. We'd also have altered its salinity profile in ways which have repercussions on e.g. cod fisheries, or krill, or other things. Thats the problem with complex biological systems with lots of interrelated parts: they don't reverse with simple tweaks because once you change one part, you change lots of parts in unexpected ways. (I did once study this stuff back in the 80s and was very bad at it, but what I recall of even two-actor predator-prey relationships is that they are remarkably complex, cyclical, and do not just return to the same stable place if you alter them trivially. I believe this is probably even more true for physical systems like weather and climate)

ojbyrne 9y ago

I suspect that like most “magic” solutions to environmental problems, this would cost significantly more than just reducing CO2 emissions.

ajmurmann 9y ago
While you are right that reducing CO2 emissions is a must, I'm uncertain if we don't have to actively remove it as well. If it's not already too late anyway. With the methane hydrate already on the move...

throw_away2 9y ago

1/100 of 1% of the world's oceans is a cube 32 miles on each side [0]. This volume of salt would weigh 317 billion tons [1]. World commercial production is .25 billion tons of salt [2]. So, to raise salinity by .01%, we'd need 1268 years of normal production (plus some when you exclude sea-water extraction). [0] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(volume+of+the+world%27s+oceans+*+.0001) http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(volume+of+the+world%27... [1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=31956+cubic+miles+of+salt+in+tons http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=31956+cubic+miles+of+sa... [2] http://www.saltinstitute.org/salt-101/production-industry/ http://www.saltinstitute.org/salt-101/production-industry/